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For those who believe in O, would you feel the same if it were Chizik?

Posted on 7/18/18 at 4:28 pm
Posted by Tiger Voodoo
Champs 03 07 09 11(fack) 19!!!
Member since Mar 2007
22096 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 4:28 pm
Hoping to get some honest discussion here, though I doubt that is likely.


What if Miles had hired Chizik to help rebuild the defense, either in 2015 or 2016. Let's say he came on as LB coach under Steele and not DC because it is key for this hypothetical that Aranda still be on board in 16. Just go with it.


Say everything happened exactly the same way in every game in both 2015 and 2016.


Miles is fired after the loss at Auburn, but instead of O being promoted to interim, Chizik gets the interim gig given his longer, and better, record as a HC.

Again, everything plays out exactly the same way. Chiz fires Cam, promotes E, we break the same records against those teams, and lose to Alabama and Florida in the same fashion.

When things break off with Herman, Alleva hires Chizik to the full time position, citing his energy, his rallying the team after Miles being fired, his and promising to hire the best OC to rejuvenate the offense and let him run it.

He could also point to his championship experience at division rival Auburn. While many would argue (myself included) that Cam Newton basically won that on his own, Alleva touts his great history at DC for multiple schools including UCF, the undefeated Auburn team in 04, and the NC winning unit at Texas in 05.

Sure, while some may point to his failures at Iowa State, he was 5-19 (2-14) there, but his success at Auburn indicated he learned from his mistakes there. Even though things ended badly on The Plains, even if you take away the NC season with Cam, Chiz was 19-19 (7-17) in his years there with two 8-5 seasons before the 2012 collapse. He is 3-0 in bowl games as a head coach.

Compare his Iowa State numbers to Ed Oregon's numbers at OM, a school with much less football history and resources:

Chiz ISU: 5-19 20.8% 2-14 12.5%
Ed Orgeron : 10-25 28.6% 3-21 12.5%

Chiz (AU total) 33-19 62.5 % 15-17 46.9 %
Chiz (AU -2010) 19-19 50% 7-17 29.2%

My question is, if everything from 2017 played out exactly the same as last year, getting slaughtered by msu, lose to Troy, but really over Auburn and finish 9-4.

Even including recruiting, and the Canada situation and subsequent hiring of E, would those that are satisfied with our current HC situation feel as confident if Gene Chizik was the man in charge and not Ed Orgeron?


Please feel free to discuss, and if someone could fark an LSU jacket on Chiz or Chiz on the LSU plane flying over Tiger Stadium I would appreciate it



This post was edited on 7/18/18 at 6:15 pm
Posted by Pensacolatgr
Member since Jun 2018
988 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 4:32 pm to
Yeah...we know why you started this thread.
Posted by justice
Member since Feb 2006
55383 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 4:33 pm to
I’d have felt about the same. Neither deserving of the job.
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
78156 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 4:33 pm to
quote:

Sure, while some may point to his failures at Iowa State, he was 5-19 (2-14) there, but his success at Auburn indicated he learned from his mistakes there. Even though things ended badly on The Plains, even if you take away the NC season with Cam, Chiz was 19-19 (7-17) in his years there with two 8-5 seasons before the 2012 collapse. He is 3-0 in bowl games as a head coach.


Or it shows you shorty coaches will have better records with better teams
This post was edited on 7/18/18 at 4:34 pm
Posted by Tiger Voodoo
Champs 03 07 09 11(fack) 19!!!
Member since Mar 2007
22096 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 4:33 pm to
Why?


So no response then?
Posted by Laman1978
Earth
Member since Jan 2009
11448 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 4:52 pm to
Who gives a damn? The coach is O. That's that.
Posted by Dlab2013
Pineville, Luzianna
Member since Jun 2013
9266 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 4:58 pm to
No. O at least has a proven record as a recruiter, chizik had Malzahn and Cam for a year, then crashed.

I’ll keep O over Chiz
Posted by Fat Bastard
2024 NFL pick'em champion
Member since Mar 2009
88679 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 5:06 pm to
yep malzahn was why chizik had success along with cam.
Posted by Tiger Voodoo
Champs 03 07 09 11(fack) 19!!!
Member since Mar 2007
22096 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 5:08 pm to
Chizik was a good recruiter as well.

He recruited Cam after all.


He also had great experience as a DC and hired Gus as OC at Auburn.
Posted by Weaver
Madisonville, LA
Member since Nov 2005
28033 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 5:09 pm to
Chizik was only good because of Gus. After Gus left the boat sank. Look at what Gus has done at Auburn. Chizik was no better than Les in my opinion and not even as good of a recruiter as Les so it would have been a bad move. Jimbo should have been the hire in 2015 with that loaded roster in 2016. Not saying we would have won the title but would have been better than we finished.
Posted by Tiger Voodoo
Champs 03 07 09 11(fack) 19!!!
Member since Mar 2007
22096 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 5:10 pm to
quote:

yep malzahn was why chizik had success along with cam.



So he was dependent on hiring good OCs? How is that different than O?

Of course he actually made a very good hire the moment he got there and achieved great success with him, so there could be a difference there.



This post was edited on 7/18/18 at 5:17 pm
Posted by Tiger Voodoo
Champs 03 07 09 11(fack) 19!!!
Member since Mar 2007
22096 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 5:11 pm to
quote:

Chizik was only good because of Gus.



Again, how is this different than we want from O?

Chizik proved able to identify, hire, and coexist with an great OC.


quote:

Chizik was no better than Les in my opinion and not even as good of a recruiter as Les so it would have been a bad move



I mean, is O?
This post was edited on 7/18/18 at 5:17 pm
Posted by BayouBengals18
Fort Worth
Member since Jan 2009
9843 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 5:15 pm to
quote:

O at least has a proven record as a recruiter,


Well Chizik has a proven DC resume to go on, and a NC as a HC.
Posted by LSUcajun77
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2008
23854 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 7:08 pm to
Chizik was a flash in the pan. Without Cam Newton he is..well Gene Chizik.

My answer is I would feel the same way about Chizik that I do Orgeron.
But the argument would be how he has a National Championship and there’s proof an unqualified or average coach can win with elite talent.
Hell, Coker did it too.
Orgeron would need to recruit a couple highly ranked classes and maybe find a super star QB to achieve what they did.
Possible? Sure, but unlikely.
Posted by beauxroux
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Nov 2010
2152 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 7:14 pm to
Truth? I’d be as skeptical of Chiz as I am of O. Should have won more games last year. This year is real test. Skeptics are fine. Daily whiners trying to convince optimistic fans to not be optimistic are not ok. Just let the damn season play out. All these what ifs and hypotheticals are ridiculous.
Posted by TigerLunatik
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Jan 2005
103926 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 7:18 pm to
quote:

Skeptics are fine. Daily whiners trying to convince optimistic fans to not be optimistic are not ok.

Another great point beaux. I wish people didn't always take simply asking questions as trying to sway people against being optimistic.
Posted by LSUcajun77
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2008
23854 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 7:26 pm to
quote:

I wish people didn't always take simply asking questions as trying to sway people against being optimistic.


I wish people knew how to take an opinion without thinking it was passing out kool-aid.

I think the convincing cuts both ways. It’s called debating. If it’s done right and people leave agreeing to disagree, then it’s healthier than personal attacks and lumping groups together as negative/positive people.

It’s a message board, for debating and discussion. You shouldn’t agree with everyone, that would be boring. Sometimes it gets out of hand, but nothing going to be perfect, that’s natural.
Posted by TigerLunatik
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Jan 2005
103926 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 7:27 pm to
It's a work in progress.
Posted by LSUcajun77
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2008
23854 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 7:34 pm to
Of course. Winning can cure all.

I will admit, this place has never been this bad.
I look forward to the team changing the morale around here.
Posted by tarzana
TX Hwy 6-- the Brazos River Valley
Member since Sep 2015
30578 posts
Posted on 7/18/18 at 7:38 pm to
Chizik, I don't think so. Yea, he won a national championship with Cam Franklin but his last season in 2012 was the worst in Auburn history and actually worse than any season Orgeron conducted.

It's better to stick with the devil you know.
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