re: Stephen Hawking Dead - Hawking Radiation Proves Existence of God

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But no one wrote about it as it happened....

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Why would you think they would? The Roman empire surely wouldn't give credit to Jesus, other than being a prophet/teacher. And the Jews surely weren't going to record him as Messiah.

You see the same thing in our MSM today. History being revised.

So what would be the end game to a made up story about Jesus? Most of the Apostles died pretty cruel deaths.

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I understand and can agree with the basic concept that none of us are perfect and we all make mistakes. What I have a hard time with is the idea that terrorizing people because of it is warranted or acceptable. As flawed as we are, even humans have managed systems of justice that are more reasonable to understand and comply with.

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But see, that's the point: you are talking about human systems. Humans are inherently sinful and we can't even fathom a perfectly holy being and what that would mean for us if we were held accountable to it for what we do. We think like Alanis Morissette; what if God was one of us? We think about God from our own perspective and judge Him by our own social and moral context.

Because we think that God is on our level, we don't understand how God could punish a human being with eternal death when we don't even have such a concept (we only deal with a limited timeline while we're alive), and the best we can do is compare to our own understanding of justice. Well it doesn't work quite that way with God because the ontological and the moral differences between God and man is far, far different than the same differences between one man and another.

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Didn't know I was here? Sorry, no excuse.
Murdered lots of children, but managed to squeak out an arse-saving confession before croaking? Welcome aboard!

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I don't believe that a confession alone saves anyone. Only true faith in Jesus Christ does and I'm of the opinion that true death-bed conversions are a rare thing, considering such things are typically motivated by fear of death rather than a true love for God.

Regardless, the reason why a generally "good" person can go to Hell and a generally "bad" person can go to Heaven if they truly repent of their sins and possess true, saving faith in Jesus Christ is because God is holy. What I mean is that everyone sins against God and deserves to be punished for it because a perfectly holy God cannot allow for unholiness to exist without being judged. Because of that, no amount of good works can overcome the bad.

The way to be saved, then, is for something or someone perfectly holy to be punished instead, which is why Jesus had to die though He was perfect and sinless. We aren't saved through our good works. If we trust in Jesus' sacrifice, then our sins are imputed to Him and punished in His death and His righteousness is imputed to us so that we can be in the presence of God though we are sinful.

This discussion always goes back to the sinfulness of man, the holiness of God, and the relationship between God and man. Too low a view of God or too high a view of man is what causes us to think God owes us something because we see ourselves as better than we are.

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I'm sure the Muslims tossing gays off roof tops have similarly divinely inspired messages that they think somehow justifies their barbarism.

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They do. That's why apologetics is important. We shouldn't understand what they believe so we can show them why it is wrong. That can be done with a worldview that accepts objective morality like Christianity, but not with a worldview that accepts moral relativism. If morality is relative, how can we tell the Muslim that he is wrong?

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Rational thought; and because it really doesn’t take a philosophical debate to understand that punishing a being that you create for not understanding the message you failed to send is probably not the pinnacle of decision-making.

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If you have read the multiple posts I've made on this already, either I haven't been clear or you are misunderstanding. No one goes to Hell because they don't "[understand] the message [God] failed to send". All people are judged for their sin.

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Yes it is.

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It is. The same evidence for God in nature exists for everyone. Some are convinced that there is a God and some don't. The issue isn't with the evidence but the stubbornness of the person who refuses to accept it. That threshold for what it takes to convince someone is different from person to person. Some are easily convinced while some will never be, no matter what amount of evidence is presented.

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I don't feel that way

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If you think God should let sin go unpunished, you are wanting God to be an unjust judge, even if you haven't considered it that way. If the reason you want God to let sin go unpunished is because you think sin is no big deal then you don't understand the nature of God, the nature of man, and the relationship between the two, which leads you to think that God shouldn't punish people for breaking the law.

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Although this is the kind of condescending tone that tends to prevent me from engaging in this type of conversation with convinced believers, I'll attempt to answer because I don't think it was intended with malice.

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I apologize if that came across as condescending. I didn't mean it as such. I only meant that the likely situation is that you don't understand what I was saying. Not due to a lack of intelligence but because it's not something commonly discussed. There's a certain context that people have in regards to what they know about Christianity and a lot of what I'm saying isn't discussed much even in Christian circles, much less with those who don't believe what the Bible teaches. If you're an exception to this, I especially apologize for the misconception. In my experience, this particular topic is woefully misunderstood by Christians and non-Christians alike, at least at it pertains to the Bible's teachings on it.

Regardless, thank you for the good faith. I honestly didn't mean that to come off as condescending or with malice, so I'm glad you didn't attribute that to me.

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I don't feel that way because I dont even feel that way about lowly human judges appointed in our legal system. I think a set of rules/laws are necessary for survival and I believe there needs to be consequences for not following them. If there is a God, I would believe him more worthy than human judges.

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I don't think rules/laws are meant just for survival. If that were the case, our laws would look a lot different and concepts like justice wouldn't exist. Justice is a virtue. Survival isn't. There are terrible people who do terrible things to others and to themselves in the name of survival.

Justice, on the other hand, is meant to determine what a person is due according to the law and to ensure--as best as possible--that people get what they deserve under that law. What we think we deserve is based on our worldview. if you believe that humans have fundamental intrinsic value, what justice looks like is going to be very different than if you don't think human beings have intrinsic value.

Human judges are trying to determine what people deserve according to the law. God does the same thing, except more perfectly because He's omniscient whereas human judges aren't. The question, then, is whether or not people who are sent to Hell deserve such treatment and whether such treatment is "fair" according to justice. Well that depends on the standard, just like the worldview difference I mentioned. The standard for justice in God's eyes is holiness, not some arbitrary law to keep peace and civility (though those are practical benefits that come from acting according to God's holiness). God determined that people should align themselves with His standard of holiness (His own character) and His law reflects that. When humans break that law, the punishment should fit the crime, and because violating the holy law of a holy God is an infinite offense against such a God, the punishment is an infinite one. It's not that God is not fair by sending people to Hell, it's that we don't understand God's standard of fairness because it's so alien to us because we are completely unlike Him in that regard.

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I understand that to the true believers, what I think of God and his system is comically irrelevant. Likewise, I believe that if there is truly a Creator responsible for us and everything around us, then to Him the writings, declarations, protestations of humans 2000 years ago is equally irrelevant. I think He would be amused that we think we got it all sorted out and written down perfectly in this book for all to follow. I think He'd be amused that so many different groups think THEY have all the answers.

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I don't think God is amused but I agree that it's almost comical to think anyone or any group thinks they have everything figured out. With that said, I believe that the Bible is God's inspired word and communication to humanity with the purpose that we can and will understand enough to be saved from the penalty our sins deserve. We don't have to have it all perfectly but we should strive to know as much as we can about the God who saved us.

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I'd argue that a lot of what's in the bible is convenient because it was written by men who needed to put forth a premise that could not be disproved by other men. The same as would occur with young boys inventing their idea of the ultimate superhero.

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Given that the Bible is full of historical events and prophecies that could have been proven or disproved through basic discourse, I have to respectfully reject the notion that they wanted to write something that couldn't be disproved by other men.

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For what it's worth, my God is bigger, stronger, smarter, faster than yours and here's the kicker, he's more loving too!

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It's one thing to make a statement like that. It's another to attempt to defend it. In this particular example: The God of the Bible is omnipresent, so it's hard to get much "bigger" than occupying all space. He is omnipotent, so it's hard to be stronger than a God that is capable of doing all He wills. He is omniscient and contains all knowledge and wisdom in Himself, so it's hard to be "smarter" than that. He has also given up His only perfect and holy son to save miserable creatures that He didn't have to create, much less save, so it's hard to think of something more loving than that.

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bullshite.

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List any questions that you think were not sufficiently addressed.

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It's one thing to make a statement like that. It's another to attempt to defend it. In this particular example: The God of the Bible is omnipresent, so it's hard to get much "bigger" than occupying all space. He is omnipotent, so it's hard to be stronger than a God that is capable of doing all He wills. He is omniscient and contains all knowledge and wisdom in Himself, so it's hard to be "smarter" than that. He has also given up His only perfect and holy son to save miserable creatures that He didn't have to create, much less save, so it's hard to think of something more loving than that.

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Sorry, you’re wrong. My God created your God. Now I can ramble on as you have with all sorts of things the I BELIEVE and neither will have proven anything. I don’t doubt that you believe what you believe, but that in no way makes it factual. I’m not sure how you equate repeating with defending.

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The discussion always goes back to preaching and proving nothing.

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We're talking about truth claims. Not all truth claims can be verified to the satisfaction of every person. You want a scientific explanation for something that transcends the limits of science. Philosophy is more useful in these discussions.

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I grew up in a Christian home, attended Services regularly as a child, was active in the church as a young adult, went to Catholic school so with all due respect please don’t think you’re telling me anything I haven’t heard numerous times.

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With all due respect, I highly doubt you've been taught exactly what I've been saying. Not even all protestants agree with what I've outlined from the scriptures and the Church in general these days is almost entirely ignorant of the contents of the Bible outside of slogans like "God loves you and have a wonderful plan for your life", which isn't necessarily true. Error abounds because study is absent. If you've actually been taught everything I've laid out so far, then kudos to your teachers.

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You are speaking from faith and should be satisfied to leave it at that.

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Everyone speaks from faith. Everyone has a worldview with basic assumptions that shape how they view the world and interpret what they perceive. Christians and other followers of religions are not exclusive here.