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Message
re: Stephen Hawking Dead - Hawking Radiation Proves Existence of God
Posted on 3/15/18 at 7:54 pm to buckeye_vol
Posted on 3/15/18 at 7:54 pm to buckeye_vol
It was stated early in this thread, by someone that I believe identified themselves as an atheist, that they wished they did believe. The comment was disputed by some believers, but I totally understood the sentiment. In my circumstances, it would simply be easier to believe and go with the flow. Like the previous poster, I have simply not been able to ignore or explain away the doubt. Like you, I also fully admit that I can't prove or disprove the existence of God although I'd be perfectly happy if some day someone else can.
1
Posted on 3/15/18 at 9:31 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
quote:FACT
quote:
Don't use this word. You have no idea what it means.
Look who's talking
I know that you are devoid of factual knowledge. You have expressed no factual information at all in this thread.
MAGA
Posted on 3/15/18 at 9:32 pm to lsufanz
So....I understand the doubts. For sure.
I think a big hangup is Christianity's salvation not being explicitly universal. But I am not convinced that it could be even if it makes sense to us in some level.
As far as the non believers -
what is the stance on the New Testament accounts? Resurrection story made up? Why? What would be the motive? Who was in on it? Why get beheaded for a lie? What changed these meek disciples into apostles?
Seems way easier to be an atheist these days. But I don't live in the South. Not there is anything wrong with that.
Check that. It is probably easiest to be a super liberal Christian/agnostic. You can play all sides of the fence from there.
I think a big hangup is Christianity's salvation not being explicitly universal. But I am not convinced that it could be even if it makes sense to us in some level.
As far as the non believers -
what is the stance on the New Testament accounts? Resurrection story made up? Why? What would be the motive? Who was in on it? Why get beheaded for a lie? What changed these meek disciples into apostles?
Seems way easier to be an atheist these days. But I don't live in the South. Not there is anything wrong with that.
Check that. It is probably easiest to be a super liberal Christian/agnostic. You can play all sides of the fence from there.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:09 pm to mofungoo
quote:
mofungoo
It seems that you've elected not to address my last reply to you.
That's probably a good idea.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:11 pm to crazyatthecamp
quote:
Resurrection story made up? Why?
Don't pretend that fictional accounts of otherwise insignificant events are new or unique.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:36 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
That doesn't answer the question.
Nobody is getting beheaded for the existence of Santa Claus.
What's the lie/fiction? What's the motive?
Jesus liar or lunatic?
Apostles mass hallucination? Organic legend building? By who and for what?
What is your take.
Nobody is getting beheaded for the existence of Santa Claus.
What's the lie/fiction? What's the motive?
Jesus liar or lunatic?
Apostles mass hallucination? Organic legend building? By who and for what?
What is your take.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:37 pm to crazyatthecamp
quote:I don't know if it's made up, but just about every religion has some type of mystical events and beliefs. So unless all of those things are true, then some of those are made up for any number of possible reasons. So do you believe all of those? And if not, then why would you find the possibility that the resurrection could be made up any different than the made up events of any other religion?
Resurrection story made up? Why? What would be the motive? Who was in on it?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:49 pm to crazyatthecamp
quote:All of those and many more are possible. I mean just look at Scientology or any one of the many cults that have popped up in recent history, where people believe ridiculous things and are willing to perpetuate to the point of harm or worse, even in our information age and with people trying to intervene.
Jesus liar or lunatic?
Apostles mass hallucination? Organic legend building? By who and for what?
I'm not equating Christianity to those. I'm just pointing out that we can witness obvious lies and illogical beliefs occur in real time, at a time when people should be better equipped to not fall for it. So why would it be surprising that this would happen in the past, especially when it was less illogical at the time.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 11:00 pm to crazyatthecamp
quote:Well, I'm not an atheist and as I stated, I'm only speaking from the perspective of my own circumstances.
Seems way easier to be an atheist these days. But I don't live in the South. Not there is anything wrong with that.
quote:I wouldn't know.
Check that. It is probably easiest to be a super liberal Christian/agnostic. You can play all sides of the fence from there.
quote:Man, I have no idea, although I'd lean toward a political explanation. You do understand that these concepts are not unique to Christianity, don't you?
As far as the non believers - what is the stance on the New Testament accounts? Resurrection story made up? Why? What would be the motive? Who was in on it? Why get beheaded for a lie? What changed these meek disciples into apostles?
If you're certain, what difference does it make? If you're not, why do you just accept what was told to you at face value?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 11:08 pm to crazyatthecamp
quote:Absolutes are (almost) always a loser. I bet there's someone out there willing.
Nobody is getting beheaded for the existence of Santa Claus.
But on the more serious point of the New Testament and why, one would have to know much more than we have handed down through various translations of what they wanted us to hear about that time and those circumstances to even be able to hazard a guess. The fact that I can't possibly answer that question, however, in no way proves the literal account of those texts.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 11:13 pm to crazyatthecamp
quote:I mean we know that Jesus' divinity wasn't settled in Christianity until the First Council of Nicea in 325 AD. We also know that pagans and people deemed Christian heretics were persecuted and even executed. And we know that the official texts of the Bible were not decided until hundreds of years after Christ and many texts were rejected. We know that accounts were often written later, and translations from language to language can make what are subtle language, cultural, and historical differences into major interpretive differences. To this day, religious scholars are trying to improve the accuracy of translations.
As far as the non believers -
what is the stance on the New Testament accounts?
I just don't know why given all that, one would wonder why some people have a hard time accepting everything as we know today even if one is a believer.
This post was edited on 3/15/18 at 11:16 pm
Posted on 3/15/18 at 11:29 pm to lsufanz
quote:And I think this is a major problem with an absolute literal and infallible interpretation of anything that requires one to ignore fallible human involvement that could intentionally or unintentionally alter meaning, especially when interpreting it thousands of years later.
The fact that I can't possibly answer that question, however, in no way proves the literal account of those texts.
What bothers me the most is when it requires people to ignore and dismiss anything in science that could even have a minor impact on a literal meaning, especially since the literal meaning was often based on others' subjective interpretation of the literal meaning, ignoring alternative interpretations or the previous interpretations.
It just seems weird to accept things as a literal and objective truth of text while accepting that those truths were determined by someone's subjective interpretation hundreds even thousands of years later.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 11:50 pm to buckeye_vol
Your first sentence is inaccurate.
The divinci code was fiction.
Paul was preaching and conferring with the apostles about the divinity of Christ in the years following the resurrection.
The bible tells the story but one could make an argument it is not needed. It's about the events that occurred.
I get the skepticism I really do. But you are asking a believer to believe the universe came from nothing and a believer is asking you to believe in a bodily resurrection account that claims witnesses and that previous skeptics died for over many years with little to gain.
I think all religions are quite different beyond the surface so I don't feel that lumping them all in the same basket is appropriate. Atheism is itself a belief system and so is pluralism and agnosticism.
I have considered the argument that the universe is just "eternal" like God is thought to be but that doesn't seem to fit with the big bang theory very well.
Multiverses? Now that sounds crazy.
I actually love this stuff.
The divinci code was fiction.
Paul was preaching and conferring with the apostles about the divinity of Christ in the years following the resurrection.
The bible tells the story but one could make an argument it is not needed. It's about the events that occurred.
I get the skepticism I really do. But you are asking a believer to believe the universe came from nothing and a believer is asking you to believe in a bodily resurrection account that claims witnesses and that previous skeptics died for over many years with little to gain.
I think all religions are quite different beyond the surface so I don't feel that lumping them all in the same basket is appropriate. Atheism is itself a belief system and so is pluralism and agnosticism.
I have considered the argument that the universe is just "eternal" like God is thought to be but that doesn't seem to fit with the big bang theory very well.
Multiverses? Now that sounds crazy.
I actually love this stuff.
Posted on 3/16/18 at 12:00 am to crazyatthecamp
quote:i can’t speak for the Buckeye, but I’m not asking you to believe anything and haven’t claimed that the universe came from nothing. If I’m not mistaken, we’ve both indicated agnosticism is closer to our belief system if a label works.
I get the skepticism I really do. But you are asking a believer to believe the universe came from nothing and a believer is asking you to believe in a bodily resurrection account that claims witnesses and that previous skeptics died for over many years with little to gain.
quote:Interesting. LG was attempting a compelling argument to the contrary as an alternative proof. In my opinion, either approach or conclusion speaks more to the human condition than to proving the literal interpretation of the Bible.
I think all religions are quite different beyond the surface so I don't feel that lumping them all in the same basket is appropriate.
This post was edited on 3/16/18 at 12:20 am
Posted on 3/16/18 at 3:38 am to crazyatthecamp
quote:No it's not. There were many varying and specific views in early Christianity regarding Jesus's divinity. This was one of the main agenda items of the Council of Nicea to settle th arguments
Your first sentence is inaccurate.
quote:Yes it is.
The divinci code was fiction
quote:OK? I didn't say the Council of Nicea is when they first brought it up.
Paul was preaching and conferring with the apostles about the divinity of Christ in the years following the resurrection.
quote:I'm not asking you to believe that. I'm asking you to understand why people may not believe the same thing that you do. That's a big difference.
But you are asking a believer to believe the universe came from nothing and a believer is asking you to believe in a bodily resurrection account that claims witnesses and that previous skeptics died for over many years with little to gain.
quote:I'm not lumping them into a basket as if they're similar. I'm saying that your arguments could he applied to other religions because you're arguing about things that have a similarities across religions.
I think all religions are quite different beyond the surface so I don't feel that lumping them all in the same basket is appropriate.
quote:And I never said otherwise. In fact, I don't even know what you're arguing about.
Atheism is itself a belief system and so is pluralism and agnosticism.
Posted on 3/16/18 at 5:24 am to crazyatthecamp
quote:
That doesn't answer the question.
Yes it does.
Posted on 3/16/18 at 7:21 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
It seems that you've elected not to address my last reply to you.
I have asked questions of you that require factual answers and you reply with stupid one sentence replies. You have no knowledge of facts. You wallow in your own stupidity.
Carry on.
MAGA
Posted on 3/16/18 at 7:25 am to crazyatthecamp
quote:
Jesus liar or lunatic?
Legend.
Posted on 3/16/18 at 7:38 am to DisplacedBuckeye
Honestly I'm not sure why there is much of a discussion about Jesus. There are zero contemporary historical accounts of him, the earliest references come about decades later. You mean to tell me a miracle worker who healed the sick, fed thousands with a few fish and bread, got Herod to slaughter little boys, pissed off religious officials, etc. etc.
But no one wrote about it as it happened....
Hell, when Jesus died graves popped open and the dead walked around. Any mention? Nah, not news worthy apparently
But no one wrote about it as it happened....
Hell, when Jesus died graves popped open and the dead walked around. Any mention? Nah, not news worthy apparently
Posted on 3/16/18 at 7:40 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Do I need to break this down for you?
Ah. I see. It is you who is thoroughly confused. You didn't understand my point. Or, more likely, you are pretending that you did and just won't take the precious time to "break it down for me?". Presumably, it's because I'm not worth it.
quote:
None of that will happen. Your response is typical, and it's no more correct here than anywhere else.
It has happened. You are running away like a scared little child.
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