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Message
Star Wars plothole going into Last Jedi
Posted on 12/9/17 at 9:47 am
Posted on 12/9/17 at 9:47 am
I’m looking forward to the new movie, and really enjoyed Force Awakens overall. However, there is a potential plothole, depending on how they handle it, with the Trilogy.
How exactly is there any coming back from the murder of billions (trillions maybe) with the destruction of an entire solar system with the Starkiller Base? This is assuming there will be some redemptive/conflicted arc with Kylo Ren, who is integral to the First Order’s operations. I just don’t know the point of allowing any redemption after that, which is probably the worst thing that could possibly be done.
I’m hoping they don’t ignore it, but also curious how they handle it period. I can’t come up with a satisfactory excuse for Kylo Ren that I would buy as a legitimate anyways.
ETA: Obviously there was the same plot point in the original trilogy, but I would venture to say that as great as Empire was, neither it nor Return of the Jedi really answered that question and just kind of ignored it and moved on.
How exactly is there any coming back from the murder of billions (trillions maybe) with the destruction of an entire solar system with the Starkiller Base? This is assuming there will be some redemptive/conflicted arc with Kylo Ren, who is integral to the First Order’s operations. I just don’t know the point of allowing any redemption after that, which is probably the worst thing that could possibly be done.
I’m hoping they don’t ignore it, but also curious how they handle it period. I can’t come up with a satisfactory excuse for Kylo Ren that I would buy as a legitimate anyways.
ETA: Obviously there was the same plot point in the original trilogy, but I would venture to say that as great as Empire was, neither it nor Return of the Jedi really answered that question and just kind of ignored it and moved on.
This post was edited on 12/9/17 at 9:50 am
11
Posted on 12/9/17 at 9:57 am to bodask42
Vader likely did much worse during his career and he got redemption in the eyes of the movie goer.
The entire galaxy may not forgive him but there are other ways to get redemption
The entire galaxy may not forgive him but there are other ways to get redemption
Posted on 12/9/17 at 10:10 am to bodask42
Don't forget the fact that the Starkiller Base also destroyed several core world planets, not just the capital of the Republic.
Most people decry Force Awakens for being a copy of A New Hope, but despite the fact that the new "Death Star" was destroyed in a similar fashion as the original death stars, unlike those, the Starkiller Base actually succeeded at its core mission prior to its destruction: the collapse of the Republic. They didn't just blow up Alderan, they blew up Coruscant and about a dozen other worlds.
In my opinion, the big plothole (that I suspect will be solved) is why Rey, someone who seemingly had zero force training and knowledge, picked it up so quickly and easily. My suspicion is that the movie will reveal something about Rey's past that she was forced to forget.
Most people decry Force Awakens for being a copy of A New Hope, but despite the fact that the new "Death Star" was destroyed in a similar fashion as the original death stars, unlike those, the Starkiller Base actually succeeded at its core mission prior to its destruction: the collapse of the Republic. They didn't just blow up Alderan, they blew up Coruscant and about a dozen other worlds.
In my opinion, the big plothole (that I suspect will be solved) is why Rey, someone who seemingly had zero force training and knowledge, picked it up so quickly and easily. My suspicion is that the movie will reveal something about Rey's past that she was forced to forget.
This post was edited on 12/9/17 at 10:20 am
Posted on 12/9/17 at 10:11 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
Vader likely did much worse during his career and he got redemption in the eyes of the movie goer
This.
Vader has always been thought of as a villain but he's more of a byronic hero. It was basically not him being evil. That's why they do the whole "Vader vs. Anakin" thing.
Kylo can go the same route.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 10:24 am to bodask42
It's only a plot hole from your perspective. And if you don't believe in the concept of the soul and life after death, then yes, the killing of innocents is absolutely unforgivable. But in the Star Wars universe, there is obviously is life after death and an underlying life force. As such Star Wars creates a framework that allows for redemption of even the most seemingly unforgivable characters.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 10:30 am to kingbob
quote:
In my opinion, the big plothole (that I suspect will be solved) is why Rey, someone who seemingly had zero force training and knowledge, picked it up so quickly and easily. My suspicion is that the movie will reveal something about Rey's past that she was forced to forget.
Not just the force stuff, but she had a weird natural knowledge of mechanical stuff and how to fly the Falcon.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 10:39 am to bodask42
They better not redeem Kyl he needs to die brutally via light saber
Posted on 12/9/17 at 10:41 am to Cow Drogo
Kylo and Rey are going to fight together at some point. BOOK IT.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 10:50 am to theunknownknight
Rey is Palpatines daughter
Her fighting style is identical to his. No way that just happens.
Her fighting style is identical to his. No way that just happens.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 10:53 am to bodask42
quote:
Not just the force stuff, but she had a weird natural knowledge of mechanical stuff and how to fly the Falcon.
Are you kidding?
The movie shows exactly where she got her mechanical knowledge.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 10:58 am to athenslife101
quote:
The movie shows exactly where she got her mechanical knowledge.
Where? She’s a scavenger but she’s never piloted a ship before. She jumps on the Falcon and on Han’s huge ship with the monster things and just starts flipping fricking switches like it’s nothing and can do anything. That’s not explained in the movie.
Not that it has to be either, it’s not super important, but it was weird as hell.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 11:03 am to athenslife101
No it doesn’t unless you’re saying it shows the same backstory as Anakin and Luke: Sandy planet - knack for electronics - space wizard behind wheel.
EXCEPT neither could whoop arse with a lightsaber until two movies in - so they better have a good reason she trumps their ALREADY genius progression
EXCEPT neither could whoop arse with a lightsaber until two movies in - so they better have a good reason she trumps their ALREADY genius progression
Posted on 12/9/17 at 11:03 am to bodask42
Watch that video in the thread "It's okay to like TFA."
It explains that she scavenges star destroyers so she has enough technical knowledge of ships to know how they work.
Makes sense, but it could just be me
It explains that she scavenges star destroyers so she has enough technical knowledge of ships to know how they work.
Makes sense, but it could just be me
Posted on 12/9/17 at 11:04 am to JetsetNuggs
I know how jets work - because of this I am now a qualified ace fighter pilot enrolling in top gun
Posted on 12/9/17 at 11:12 am to theunknownknight
You don't live in a fantasy universe where people can change other's minds with a wave of a hand though.
I get the questioning of the whole thing, but I do think it's just nitpicking. It's a movie.
I get the questioning of the whole thing, but I do think it's just nitpicking. It's a movie.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 11:15 am to bodask42
quote:
Not just the force stuff, but she had a weird natural knowledge of mechanical stuff
That doesn't bother me because she was a scrapper. In order to be a decent scrapper, she would have to learn what all of those pieces do and why they are important. That doesn't bother me at all.
quote:
and how to fly the Falcon.
That bothers me a little, but it slightly corresponds to the first part.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 11:18 am to Tiger70503
quote:
Rey is Palpatines daughter
Her fighting style is identical to his. No way that just happens.
Old Palps died 30 years before TFA in the timeline. So, unless someone froze some Emperor sperm, I doubt he's Rey's daddy.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 11:19 am to JetsetNuggs
quote:
You don't live in a fantasy universe where people can change other's minds with a wave of a hand though. I get the questioning of the whole thing, but I do think it's just nitpicking. It's a movie.
This is all true. Rey’s knowledge of the force and mechanical stuff can be explained away by being assisted by the force or whatever and that’s fine.
But back to my original post: I don’t think you can gloss over the brutal destruction of a dozen planets and trillions of lives no matter the universe. I hope it is addressed in a satisfactory way that actually enhances the story.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 12:36 pm to bodask42
How is that a plot hole? Vader just watches in the same manner Kylo did.
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