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re: Could almost anyone born after 1940 fight in WWI
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:04 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:04 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I think mostly anyone posting on this forum would reach a breaking point
Yeah but that’s not to say that people didn’t reach their breaking point in that war. Ernst Jünger was in just about every major battle of the war on the western front in WWI and had nerves of steel and even he talked about how he lost his nerve during a battle, I wanna say at the end of the war around Operation Michael.
My biggest thing with it was around 1916 the combatants (really criminals when we look at it through our eyes) and their leaders were so far down the path in the war that they couldn’t back off the throttle. They were in a death grip with each other and nobody was letting go until the other cried uncle.
I would like to wonder though if it wouldn’t have been better for the world at large had the Germans not won? That’s an interesting rabbit hole to crawl down.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:17 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
I would like to wonder though if it wouldn’t have been better for the world at large had the Germans not won?
I have a hard time imagining a scenario barring nuclear apocalypse (the nuclear bomb is inevitable in any scenario) if Germany had stormed Paris in the first months of the war. The British wouldn't have really been all that involved and then the Germans could solely focus on Russia. I don't think Germany's conditions on France would be all that severe to inspire a French Hitler either to rise to power.
But WWI's escalation led to the Germans smuggling Lenin back to Russia to spread the infectious disease of communism. That killed 150 million people at least and almost led us to nuclear holocaust. And think if the Ottomans had only been around for another 10 years to discover the value of their oil reserves and what that means for the Muslim world? Europe would be much stronger and continue to have influence. America would likely still be an isolationist country, barring the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor in a different timeline (a possibility since they had imperial aspirations long before WWI). The downside is we'd probably be 20-30 years back in technology.
The only worse scenario I can really think of is Western Europe becomes Communist and through their mass colonies make it even worse. That and nuclear holocaust. WWI was pretty much a worst case scenario.
If we wait until later than 1914, then some other colorful things can pop up, but if Germany had stormed Paris, I really think the world would be a better place... save for not being born of course.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:18 pm to OMLandshark
The answer is the same as the WWII thread
Yes
Yes
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:19 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I'm pretty sure we knew Hitler was a genocidal maniac due to a Jewish refugee crisis and the Rape of Nanking. I'll grant you that Hitler gave us a "hope for the best, fear for the worst" scenario in that going through with the Holocaust directly impedes with his war effort, but not with the Japanese. Tons of journalists and Western Ambassadors witnessed and recorded that, trying to get the Chinese to safety. Nanking was well documented.
So you believe the United States got involved in the war because of Hitler's actions against Jews and Japanese war crimes in China? Like I said, such naivete.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:21 pm to ChewyDante
quote:
Tons of journalists and Western Ambassadors witnessed and recorded that, trying to get the Chinese to safety. Nanking was well documented.
Roosevelt wanted to blockade Japan after Nanking but the British and other European powers refused because they were afraid it lead to war. Lolz
The Europeans have been pretty fricking useless since WWI.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:22 pm to ChewyDante
quote:
So you believe the United States got involved in the war because of Hitler's actions against Jews and Japanese war crimes in China? Like I said, such naivete.
I'm saying we knew they were evil. I don't think many people in the US thought that the Germans were evil during WWI, and Woodrow Wilson made that clear in his speech on getting Congress to vote for a declaration of war. It just really helps the war effort when your enemy is indisputably evil.
They sure as shite showed the soldiers in the Pacific what the Japanese did in the Rape of Nanking, and the NYT was there to report on it. It was a very widely reported massacre. I'm sure that footage made sure that no American wanted to be captured alive by them and would fight to the death with the Japanese.
This post was edited on 12/5/17 at 7:26 pm
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:23 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Roosevelt wanted to blockade Japan after Nanking but the British and other European powers refused because they were afraid it lead to war. Lolz
I did not know that. Fun fact of the day.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:24 pm to OMLandshark
I just happened to be watching WWII in Color a few hours ago
ETA: I don’t think it was solely because of Nanking. The Japs also sank one of our gunboats in Shanghai killing 55 sailors.
ETA: I don’t think it was solely because of Nanking. The Japs also sank one of our gunboats in Shanghai killing 55 sailors.
This post was edited on 12/5/17 at 7:25 pm
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:28 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
ETA: I don’t think it was solely because of Nanking. The Japs also sank one of our gunboats in Shanghai killing 55 sailors.
And Pearl Harbor. But they had tons of footage showing the Japanese just being delightful murdering, raping, and literally cannibalizing their way across China not giving a shite if they were men, women, or children. That's some inspiration to kill and not be captured by those maniacs.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:30 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I'm saying we knew they were evil.
Who's "we" and when exactly did "we" know they were evil and how did that influence national policy considerations? Did America decide collectively or through our political leadership that it was our national mission to fight wars against "evil" governments? Was the USSR not an "evil" government? Why did Roosevelt have to wait for a German declaration of war upon the United States if we decided to go to war because we knew they were evil?
Is it "without question worth goin to war" with any government or state actor that someone thinks is "evil?" Is that what you think constitutes a sensible foreign policy in the first place?
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:31 pm to OMLandshark
The gunboat incident happened in 37 during the same time as Nanking when Roosevelt wanted to get involved. Who knows what would’ve happened had the US and Europeans intervened then instead of waiting.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:38 pm to ChewyDante
quote:
Who's "we" and when exactly did "we" know they were evil and how did that influence national policy considerations?
We (ie: Americans/everyone) knew that two Japanese officers challenged each other to a bet to be the first to kill 100 Chinese people with a sword. Well, they lost count, so the next day they upped the total to 150. Then when they killed the same number, they went into extra innings. Even the Nazis were sickened by it. These two monsters were fortunately executed at the end of the war.
So yeah, this is all subjective isn't it?
quote:
Why did Roosevelt have to wait for a German declaration of war upon the United States if we decided to go to war because we knew they were evil?
Is it "without question worth goin to war" with any government or state actor that someone thinks is "evil?" Is that what you think constitutes a sensible foreign policy in the first place?
We didn't go to war because they were evil. We went to war because they attacked us and our ideals, along with Germany also declaring war. The fact that they were objectively evil sure helps the vote and the soldiers fighting them. That was a big problem in WWI was everyone feeling sympathetic for the guy across the line. You're an ignoramus.
This post was edited on 12/5/17 at 7:49 pm
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:41 pm to OMLandshark
The first and last resource for those interested in the geopolitical climate before during and after WWI and vivid descriptions as to just how horrific that war was is Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:44 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Who knows what would’ve happened had the US and Europeans intervened then instead of waiting.
I'm not sure how effective it would have been given that Hitler and Stalin would have taken advantage of this. Unlike the Germans storming Paris in 1914, I can see some serious downsides to this.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:49 pm to OMLandshark
the people fighting in WW II didn't want to be there anymore than today's people would want to be there ...
and this notion that today's youth are the problem is willfully ignorant at best ... most of ya'll and your precious parents haven't risked anything for your country and didn't when you had the chance ... but keep patting that chest and chanting 'merica ...
and this notion that today's youth are the problem is willfully ignorant at best ... most of ya'll and your precious parents haven't risked anything for your country and didn't when you had the chance ... but keep patting that chest and chanting 'merica ...
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:59 pm to OMLandshark
I have just as much faith in military now as I’m sure the people did back in WW1. I agree back then it was brutal but at least you knew your enemy. In Iraq or Afghanistan a kid is liable to blow himself up when he was just running to you asking for help. Frick that
This post was edited on 12/5/17 at 8:00 pm
Posted on 12/5/17 at 8:01 pm to tiderider
quote:
and this notion that today's youth are the problem is willfully ignorant at best ... most of ya'll and your precious parents haven't risked anything for your country and didn't when you had the chance
I’ve been drinking JD and probably misunderstood your post but those guys in the shithole of Iraq and Afghanistan risked quite a bit. It was nothing but one big arse booby trap.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 8:06 pm to windshieldman
quote:
I agree back then it was brutal but at least you knew your enemy.
Who? People who fought for the Kaiser? Some bullshite going down in the Balkans? Why did anyone who was British give a shite about that? I think to people born after this, the answer would be clear on who they should be fighting against, and it is the ruling class. The Russians directly acted on those ideas and thus the Soviet Union was born.
At least these days they know these thugs would want to kill them and their whole family if they had their way. They saw their German enemies across the trenches and identified with their direct situation. That's not good in war and makes your soldier much less likely to shoot someone in a moment of pity. They knew the only reason they were firing upon them is because their superior officer told them to do so.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 8:08 pm to windshieldman
quote:
quote:
and this notion that today's youth are the problem is willfully ignorant at best ... most of ya'll and your precious parents haven't risked anything for your country and didn't when you had the chance
I’ve been drinking JD and probably misunderstood your post but those guys in the shithole of Iraq and Afghanistan risked quite a bit. It was nothing but one big arse booby trap.
hence the use of the word "most" ...
Posted on 12/5/17 at 8:10 pm to OMLandshark
Yea I understand. I’m saying compared to Iraq and Afghanistan it is different. Nowadays regular “civilians” walk by and blow themselves up. People are sniping at you with kids in front of them. A person disguised as a woman asking for help blows themselves up and takes out a lot of soldiers. Yet many guys still stayed and fought here. To me, our soldiers, even “millennial” one’s are just as good as back then
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