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Why is the United States opposed to an independent Kurdish State?
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:23 pm
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:23 pm
The kurds are having an independence referendum this week and it is expected to pass.
The United States and its allies oppose the measure. Why is that?
No flaming. Just want the rationale here.
Would love to hear from MrCarton here as that dude is pretty fricking solid when it comes to the mideast.
The United States and its allies oppose the measure. Why is that?
No flaming. Just want the rationale here.
Would love to hear from MrCarton here as that dude is pretty fricking solid when it comes to the mideast.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:25 pm to Sentrius
I thought a democratic Kurdistan would be good for the US.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:27 pm to Sentrius
Well, I'll take a shot.
- Kurds are immortal enemies of the Arabs, Turks, Armenians, and Iranians.
None of these groups wants the Kurds to have a state.
All of these groups fall under alliances to either a current or former superpower.
Therefore, they have no state.
I'm sure if the Kurds only had enemies on one side of the NATO/Russia fight, the other would have made an effort to create a Kurdish state.
Also: we just foolishly invested a few dollars into building up Iraq as a sovereign nation. We lose face if they break up.
- Kurds are immortal enemies of the Arabs, Turks, Armenians, and Iranians.
None of these groups wants the Kurds to have a state.
All of these groups fall under alliances to either a current or former superpower.
Therefore, they have no state.
I'm sure if the Kurds only had enemies on one side of the NATO/Russia fight, the other would have made an effort to create a Kurdish state.
Also: we just foolishly invested a few dollars into building up Iraq as a sovereign nation. We lose face if they break up.
This post was edited on 9/26/17 at 1:28 pm
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:28 pm to Sentrius
Who's land are they supposed to be taking from this when Kurds are generally from 4 different countries?
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:28 pm to Sentrius
I'll take Saudi Arabia for $1000 Alex
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:32 pm to Sentrius
a millennia of violence between Turks, Persians , and Kurd's
this time it's Erdogan acting like a cry baby
the Turks hold NATO and it's strategic significance, vis-a vis Russia, over the head of the US to always get what they want
this time it's Erdogan acting like a cry baby
the Turks hold NATO and it's strategic significance, vis-a vis Russia, over the head of the US to always get what they want
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:35 pm to Sentrius
Because all the major groups will declare war including Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey. The independent state takes land and resources from those countries.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:35 pm to Port Royal
quote:
the Turks hold NATO and it's strategic significance, vis-a vis Russia, over the head of the US to always get what they want
I agree with this.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:37 pm to Sentrius
quote:Because NATO member Turkey is opposed to it.
The United States and its allies oppose the measure. Why is that?
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:37 pm to BamaFinland
quote:
Who's land are they supposed to be taking from this when Kurds are generally from 4 different countries?
This is the fundamental question and nobody wants to give a chunk of important land to the Kurds. The US doesn't need this headache we are trying to unite these groups against ISIS.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:39 pm to GumboPot
quote:
I agree with this.
I think Europeans probably don't mind Turkey in NATO, it makes sense. What they don't like is the US pressuring Europe to place Turkey in the EU.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:41 pm to BamaFinland
The land that they won with blood and sweat from ISIS that they already lived in the first place
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:42 pm to Sentrius
We created a country for Israel and Iraq post ww2 and Czech post ww1. The surrounding countries had issues with it
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:44 pm to Sentrius
quote:
he kurds are having an independence referendum this week and it is expected to pass.
The United States and its allies oppose the measure. Why is that?
No flaming. Just want the rationale here.
Would love to hear from MrCarton here as that dude is pretty fricking solid when it comes to the mideast.
not trying to flame here, but why do you (and a majority of americans) not know the answer to this?
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:55 pm to Sentrius
If the Kurds have a lot of oil, and are willing to give us a lot of it for little or nothing, I believe their chances of getting a nation of their own would increase dramatically.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 1:57 pm to Sentrius
quote:
The kurds are having an independence referendum this week and it is expected to pass.
For numerous reasons.
First a primer. The Kurds are an ethnic Persian group that are spread across multiple countries in West Asia, including Turkey, Iraq, Iran, and Syria. There are about 25 to 35 million Kurds. There are a couple of major groups . The PYD/YPG, the PKK, the KDP, the KNC, and the PUK. They are not a monolithic group. The referendum is an extension of the KDP and PUK, groups that fought a civil war in the 1990s, with the KDP vs the PUK/PKK, and invited Turkish intervention in 1997.
The Turks have been fighting a 40 year civil war with the PKK, as 20% of their population is Kurdish, and some Syrian Kurds, who make up the PYD/YPG, are descendants of Kurds who were displaced from Anatolia during the rise of Turkish nationalism. There is a great deal of historical animosity between those two groups, so much so that an independent Kurdish state would almost certainly ensure war with Turkey.
The other Kurdish groups were funded by different governments. For example, the Iraqi Kurds received funding from the Iranians in both the pre-Shah and post-Shah era, and the same is true of the Iranian Kurds.
An independent Kurdish state would fracture Iraq, and would send southern Iraq further into Iran's orbit, while at the same time alienating the Sunni's in Western Iraq. Turkey would immediately be openly hostile to an independent Kurdish state, depending on its shape, while Iraqi nationalists want to prevent the Kurds from leaving so as to limit Iranian influence. The Iranians are likely to suppress their Kurdish elements that want independence as well. Also in the Iraqi case, a key pipeline to Turkey goes through Kurdistan, and access to those payments is seen as key in rebuilding Iraq.
I think a completely independent state would almost certainly spell a major war at some point in time. An autonomous Kurdish region within Iraq is the most likely avenue to avoid a major war.
This post was edited on 9/26/17 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 9/26/17 at 2:00 pm to Sentrius
I had a Kurd Uber driver when I was in San Diego. I asked him why he still liked the US after we continue to leave them out to dry. He said he still loves the US because it's the greatest country on Earth and has continuously tried to keep his people safe. That dude loved the US more than 75% of Americans.
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