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OT history and military gurus: George Washington v. Oliver Cromwell
Posted on 7/4/17 at 8:47 pm
Posted on 7/4/17 at 8:47 pm
A little Independence Day hypothetical:
I know there was about 130 or so years difference between these two and thus weapons, organization and such changed. I think armed forces in Cromwell's time were mostly pikes and (probably primitive) muskets. Along with cavalry of course.
But lets say somehow Cromwell gets sent forward to the American Revolution era and is given say 6-12 months to get himself up to speed and to organize the British forces that fought in the Revolution. And lets say he desires a British victory in the war.
I think the strength of both men were their ability to lead, manage and inspire soldiers. And to somehow get assets from their respective legislative bodies. I'm not sure either is among the upper echelon purely in terms of strategy and tactics in battle.
Who would prevail?
I know there was about 130 or so years difference between these two and thus weapons, organization and such changed. I think armed forces in Cromwell's time were mostly pikes and (probably primitive) muskets. Along with cavalry of course.
But lets say somehow Cromwell gets sent forward to the American Revolution era and is given say 6-12 months to get himself up to speed and to organize the British forces that fought in the Revolution. And lets say he desires a British victory in the war.
I think the strength of both men were their ability to lead, manage and inspire soldiers. And to somehow get assets from their respective legislative bodies. I'm not sure either is among the upper echelon purely in terms of strategy and tactics in battle.
Who would prevail?
This post was edited on 7/4/17 at 8:49 pm
Posted on 7/4/17 at 8:49 pm to Methuselah
Washington is not generally regard as an especially brilliant military commander
Posted on 7/4/17 at 8:50 pm to Methuselah
quote:
Who would prevail?
America. Because no one was going to beat this:
quote:
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
This post was edited on 7/4/17 at 8:51 pm
Posted on 7/4/17 at 8:50 pm to Methuselah
Prolly George Orwell.
In extra innings.
Passed ball.
ETA: Could you repeat the question?
In extra innings.
Passed ball.
ETA: Could you repeat the question?
This post was edited on 7/4/17 at 8:52 pm
Posted on 7/4/17 at 8:56 pm to Methuselah
Simply based on the circumstances that surrounded the war, it would be Washington.
Lack of effective military leadership didn't lose the war for Britain. They basically had a lot of other shite going on that they had to deal with and eventually realized the American colonies were a lost cause.
Lack of effective military leadership didn't lose the war for Britain. They basically had a lot of other shite going on that they had to deal with and eventually realized the American colonies were a lost cause.
Posted on 7/4/17 at 9:15 pm to UGATiger26
General Banastre Tarleton cost England the war.
LINK
Mary "polly" Hooks Slocum is my paternal line grandmother.
Skirmish at Pleasant Green, our plantation, and Moore's Creek Bridge (lower cape fear) foiled the original battle plan for Yorktown.
Cornwallis was doomed at Yorktown because of these 2, mostly unheralded battles.
Puritan Cromwell would have fared no better against the rag tag Scottish North Carolina militia.
LINK
Mary "polly" Hooks Slocum is my paternal line grandmother.
Skirmish at Pleasant Green, our plantation, and Moore's Creek Bridge (lower cape fear) foiled the original battle plan for Yorktown.
Cornwallis was doomed at Yorktown because of these 2, mostly unheralded battles.
Puritan Cromwell would have fared no better against the rag tag Scottish North Carolina militia.
This post was edited on 7/4/17 at 9:18 pm
Posted on 7/4/17 at 9:20 pm to Methuselah
daily reminder:
Oliver Cromwell is scum.
Rest in peace King Charles I, you will never be forgotten in my household.
Oliver Cromwell is scum.
Rest in peace King Charles I, you will never be forgotten in my household.
Posted on 7/4/17 at 9:40 pm to Collegedropout
quote:
daily reminder: Oliver Cromwell is scum. Rest in peace King Charles I, you will never be forgotten in my household.
The royalists were so pissed at Cromwell that after he died and the monarchy was restored, they dug his body up and hung him - 2 years after his death.
Posted on 7/4/17 at 9:49 pm to Methuselah
His eyes and ears, gen tarleton was a british dilletante, a "dandy"...
Posted on 7/4/17 at 9:50 pm to Fatal Conceit
quote:
Fatal Conceit
You're my kind of people.
Posted on 7/4/17 at 10:00 pm to HempHead
You are mighty kind. Can't link a cheers beer mug toast icon from phone, but cheers to you and yours!
Posted on 7/4/17 at 10:01 pm to Fatal Conceit
Clan Gordon and Clan Buchanan, my world-conquering Scots-Irish brethren.
Posted on 7/4/17 at 10:03 pm to HempHead
Clan Campbell, Clan McLean today. Our Slocum and Gully Clans were absorbed by marriage and hate. Perfect match!
This post was edited on 7/4/17 at 10:06 pm
Posted on 7/4/17 at 10:04 pm to HempHead
muh scots-irish!!!!
take a dna test brah, bet you are just as Anglo
take a dna test brah, bet you are just as Anglo
Posted on 7/4/17 at 10:06 pm to Collegedropout
I turned up 90% Celtic (though I think their grouping included English), 5% Western European (I guess there is some kraut and frog in there, and I know I had a Catalonian great whatever grandma), 4% Scandinavian, and 1% Middle Eastern - no fricking clue about that one.
Posted on 7/4/17 at 10:16 pm to HempHead
I thought Western European = Anglo?
Posted on 7/4/17 at 10:17 pm to Methuselah
If Washington had Jonathan Swift to ridicule and demean Cromwell, Ollie would be too humiliated to fight.
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