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Message
Single payer: better care for less cost?: It's not so easy
Posted on 5/12/17 at 8:58 pm
Posted on 5/12/17 at 8:58 pm
quote:
t. As stated, this meme is true enough: America does have higher health-care costs than anywhere else, and we do indeed have shorter life expectancies than some nations. But of course people are not introducing these facts as a fun bit of trivia, like “Babe Ruth used to wear a cabbage leaf under his baseball cap to keep cool.” What they are actually interested in communicating is the implication that America could switch to a single-payer health-care system and thereby enjoy longer life expectancies at lower cost. And that implication is considerably more dubious.
quote:
Start with mortality. A recent survey concluded that “regardless of cross-national differences in access to quality medical care, the fact remains that the overwhelming contributors to the incidence of disease (e.g. poor health behaviors) operate largely outside the influence of medical care.” Americans seem to be sicker than people in other countries, and while people often attribute this to lack of preventive care, on some metrics that ought to improve our life-expectancy -- such as screening tests -- America actually does more than other places. Other contributing conditions, such as obesity, have shown little response to the things that primary care physicians can do, such as tell you that you should lose weight.
quote:
We’re also at greater risk for fatal injuries than people in other countries. We have a higher homicide rate, in part because Americans seem to be more violent and in part because we have greater access to guns. And we drive more, so more of us die in auto accidents. No matter what you think of America’s car-driven development policy, or its gun-control regime, you can’t think that altering our health-care system is going to keep Americans from driving to their suburban homes, or shooting each other.
quote:
Skeptical? Let’s look at what happened when the U.S. greatly expanded the government’s funding of health care: Between 2014 and 2015, age-adjusted mortality rose for the first time in decades.
quote:
hen you actually look at our spending, you see that even before Obamacare, America spent more on its government systems as a percentage of GDP than many of the comparison countries we’re supposed to emulate -- this to cover a fraction of the population. Somehow, getting the government involved did not make American health care cheap.
quote:
No government system in the world has actually lowered health-care costs on any sustained basis, absent something like the Greek financial crisis that forces a sudden and drastic reduction in government spending. Lowering health-care spending means denying treatments, closing hospitals, and cutting provider salaries. Politically, this has proven impossible.
quote:
Looking at our health-care-cost growth for the most recent six years, you see that spending as a percentage of GDP was basically flat from 2009 to 2013, then rose 0.5 percent in the two years after Obamacare kicked in. These numbers are quite comparable to OECD competitor nations, and better than some, such as the UK and Switzerland
LINK
This author brings up a very interesting point: How do we know that in each european country, it is single payer that is the reason the amount of healthcare spending is lower? Where is the evidence that european nations would have more expensive healthcare if it wasn't for single payer? Virtually all european nations instituted some form of universal healthcare long before we could track any sort of spending data.
We don't have any proof that "country X lowered it's health costs by becoming single payer".
Key question: If european nations are struggling with the US JUST AS MUCH when it comes to controlling RATE of cost GROWTH, what makes people so sure that single payer here would not just lower the rate of growth, but make the growth negative?
Posted on 5/12/17 at 9:04 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Just wait until it's single payer and all the hospitals that can actually turn a minimal profit (I.e. Ochsner) through efficiency and capitalism are hamstrung by all of the government regulations. IMO single payer will cost more in the long run due to government waste and bureaucracy
Posted on 5/12/17 at 9:08 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
How do we know that in each european country, it is single payer that is the reason the amount of healthcare spending is lower?
OMG!
The correlation =/= causation thingy.
Bravo!
Posted on 5/12/17 at 9:11 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I actual had the same exact thought the other day when considering the "babe ruth" stat. There are so many more factors to consider, not the least of which is our morbidly obese citizenry which is a large if not the largest contributor to our leading causes of death. Driving and gun violence are two more excellent points.
This leads me to lean toward cost drivers as the main thing to focus on. And i dont think the massively bloated government is the institute to entrust with that.
This leads me to lean toward cost drivers as the main thing to focus on. And i dont think the massively bloated government is the institute to entrust with that.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 9:44 pm to AUbused
Plus quite honestly a vast majority of our expenditures are not being spent on educated individuals. If you spend any amount of time in Academic Medical Centers you will quickly understand what we are facing. Diabetic individuals that no matter how many times you explain to them that they have to change their diet simply won't. Cancer patients who gets a central line for chemo who even though you explain they have to clean the sight daily and are given the disposables to complete the task and don't do it, end up septic and spend countless days in the ICU. I can go on but some of the simple stuff I see patients, that are basically getting free healthcare, neglect boggles my mind sometimes.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 9:49 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Single Payer is inevitable like gay rights
Posted on 5/12/17 at 9:54 pm to AUbused
quote:Same government that has brought us this...
This leads me to lean toward cost drivers as the main thing to focus on. And i dont think the massively bloated government is the institute to entrust with that
Is somehow going to make medical care cheap.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 11:01 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
How do we know that in each european country, it is single payer that is the reason the amount of healthcare spending is lower?
its not just that. in some European countries MDs do not have any college debt when they start practice.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 11:08 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
There isn't a lower cost. It's a fantasy. You can't insure the entire country without jacking up taxes. It's the same with free college, or anything else that the left wants to be free. Nothing is ever free.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 11:19 pm to Rakim
Single payer may be inevitable but there will always be supplemental insurance that the rich will be able to afford while the government tells the majority of the people in this country how their healthcare will be delivered.
This will only widen the inequality gap and create more animosity between the classes in this country.
It is a recipe for disaster. The government needs to get out of healthcare. No one here can name a single thing that the government does more efficiently and cost effective than the private sector
This will only widen the inequality gap and create more animosity between the classes in this country.
It is a recipe for disaster. The government needs to get out of healthcare. No one here can name a single thing that the government does more efficiently and cost effective than the private sector
Posted on 5/12/17 at 11:26 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
The governments rules and regulations on healthcare are costing us billions. And more government intervention into healthcare is susceptible to corruption. If you think lobbyist and kickbacks are bad now, wait until there is one payer and all the companies are vying for that lucrative wasteful government contract.
And if you think that will create competition with one payer (the government) being able to negotiate, LOL, you are very niave. Just look at how we hand out money for construction projects, stimulus bills, etc. It's all a scam and mostly waste
You need a for-profit entity making the decisions in order to lower costs. This country is not for-profit. They just print more money
And if you think that will create competition with one payer (the government) being able to negotiate, LOL, you are very niave. Just look at how we hand out money for construction projects, stimulus bills, etc. It's all a scam and mostly waste
You need a for-profit entity making the decisions in order to lower costs. This country is not for-profit. They just print more money
This post was edited on 5/12/17 at 11:28 pm
Posted on 5/13/17 at 12:44 am to CelticDog
quote:College debt isn't a major cost driver in our healthcare system.
its not just that. in some European countries MDs do not have any college debt when they start practice.
Posted on 5/13/17 at 1:16 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
quote: its not just that. in some European countries MDs do not have any college debt when they start practice. College debt isn't a major cost driver in our healthcare system.
In addition, physician reimbursement is only 8% of total healthcare expenditures. So, by cutting pay say 20%, doesn't do much to cut the overall cost.
Posted on 5/13/17 at 1:27 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
My Canadian brother in law works for Zurich Insurance, and you can best believe he has a health insurance policy for him and his family that is good in the US. Says he would never, ever even think about engaging the Commie Canadian system whatsoever.
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