When deciding GOAT player, how you you rank these factors?

Stats
Intangibles (will to win, leadership, confidence)
Individual awards/records
performance under pressure
Physical abilities











































































# of Championships

quote:

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In order of importance.

-# of Championships
-Stats
-Individual awards/records
-Physical abilities
-Intangibles (will to win, leadership, confidence)
-supporting cast
-performance under pressure

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Half the time unknown. It's so subjective unless they were a superstar on their own before teaming up with said superstar...ala LeBron and Wade.

But, who the frick knows how good Worthy would have been without a career getting free layups.

Or McHale and the Chief being able to never be double-teamed because everybody was watching Bird...who would pass them the easy under the basket dunk or layup.

So supporting cast is just an exercise is make believe speculation. Stars make great players...I love when people say...well Magic played with All-Stars!...Apart from Kareem, Magic MADE THEM ALL-STARS!

Stats don't mean jack squat. Don't mean anything. Total misnomer in evaluating basketball players for posterity.

As Kevin McHale said in that great documentary...

"Larry and Magic could take 12 shots...be something like 18 points, 10 rebounds and 12 assists and control the game...and be the best players on the court BY FAR!"

And as Bird said...when comparing himself to Magic...I go by success so I give him the nod.

1. Success
2. Awards (I think it's important, it shows what the peers thought at the time of you...no retro-active bullshite from people who never saw the person play...like how people bitch about Bird...dude only won rookie of the year and MVPS over Magic...that shows you what the people who actually watched players play thought of them.)
3. Intangibles - killer on the court and alpha male attitude cannot be understated. Magic would smile at you but want to cut your heart out. Bird would dog everyone in the league and trash talk them into submission.

If you want to separate some...then you can add stats. But like I said, some played to win, some played to pad stats like some selfish a-holes in the 70's and early 80's.


Physical abilities? What does this even mean? You can be a great basketball or baseball player and not be that great physically.

quote:

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-# of Championships

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This is the thing that matters the least to me, at least in team sports.

I don't think you can ever compare players across multiple generations by #championships, stats, etc. Stats can be affected by generational factors, game changes, etc. Championships can be affected by things such as league expansion, salary caps, etc.

You have to look at a player and see how he performed against his generational peers.

In other words, I think individual awards, while very flawed, is the best way to determine a GOAT athlete.

If you are talking individual sports like golf and tennis, then I think Championships and Individual Awards go hand-in-hand.

There's a reason Kareem went something like 154-4 in High School and College...and it wasn't because he was playing with Jordan and Magic.

Great players dominate the opposition and control their teams destiny.

Jordan never had a great supporting cast but he made average players champions.

Assuming this is an nba question..

Titles (success)
Performances
Stats
Awards
Physical attributes

Spending entire career with same team is important too