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re: The case against Derek Barnett
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:24 pm to htran90
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:24 pm to htran90
A lot of people are acting like we need an all-world DE like Watt to be good. We just need someone to make the QB uneasy. Our D just needs to be around middle of the pack ranking wise and we'll be just fine with Drew at the helm.
All we really need a contributor. Sure, if we drafted a DE that turns out to be Watt caliber, that'd be great but it is not necessary. I think Barnett would make a solid player, maybe not HOF or anything but a good, solid, contributing player.
All we really need a contributor. Sure, if we drafted a DE that turns out to be Watt caliber, that'd be great but it is not necessary. I think Barnett would make a solid player, maybe not HOF or anything but a good, solid, contributing player.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:29 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
Very comparable. I'd take a guy that compares favorable to the obvious #1 pick all day. Just sayin'.
That doesn't guarantee success.
quote:
The top chart is percentages. Total games wouldn't change that.
First off, you are right and wrong. Yes, they are percentages. That is the only thing you are right about.
These percentages are based off total numbers, which are not taking into account how many games played. Read the damn chart dude. PERCENT OF CAREER PRODUCTION (ie total number of sacks/pressures/hurries).
Garrett got 32% of his sacks in SEC play. Well, had he played in the 3 SEC games that he missed, he surely would have more sacks/pressures/hits, which would bring that 32% number up.
And again, context comes into play. Why are Barnett's sacks vs Kentucky more impressive then Garrett's OOC sacks vs UCLA, Louisville, or AZ State?
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:43 pm to Lester Earl
I'll take away 5 sacks from Barnett's SEC play to make up for the 5 more total games he's played.
Barnett still has 25 SEC games sacks to Garrett's 10.
And that's skewing thing in Garrett's favor. Explain that away.
Barnett still has 25 SEC games sacks to Garrett's 10.
And that's skewing thing in Garrett's favor. Explain that away.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:47 pm to Fun Bunch
I don't feel Barnett at 11. I've been on the Reuben Foster train, but he may be more of an idiot than I realized. But my rationalization remains the same... there is not a huge gap, if any gap between Barnett and the pass rushers available at 32/42. So take a baller at 11, Foster, McAffery, etc
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:50 pm to bonethug0108
Again, Barnett has 16 sacks vs UK, Vandy and South Carolina over the last 3 years.
combined record for those 3 teams: 46-66
combined record for those 3 teams: 46-66
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:54 pm to bonethug0108
But there's only so much college production can do for a player. Michael Sam was a stud at Missouri.
Jarvis Jones was at Georgia. Yes Barnett is productive but does that mean we should take him at 11? Frick no. There has to be more to him and right now I don't see him coming in right away and being a force.
Jarvis Jones was at Georgia. Yes Barnett is productive but does that mean we should take him at 11? Frick no. There has to be more to him and right now I don't see him coming in right away and being a force.
This post was edited on 4/21/17 at 2:55 pm
Posted on 4/21/17 at 3:40 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
combined record for those 3 teams: 46-66
Means jack shite. Who was the LT for each team each year?
Posted on 4/21/17 at 3:54 pm to FitzBlitz52
quote:
All we really need a contributor. Sure, if we drafted a DE that turns out to be Watt caliber, that'd be great but it is not necessary. I think Barnett would make a solid player, maybe not HOF or anything but a good, solid, contributing player.
You hope the 11th overall player is better than this.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 4:40 pm to bonethug0108
So wait, LTs matter now but originally you wanna base their productivity on Something as broad as conference numbers? Do I really need to explain how dumb that is?
Myles Garrett plays against no one( teams!!)
Derek Barnett racks up stats against weak SEC teams....but look at the LTs!!!!
Man how come you don't say go look at the tackles Garrett has played against instead of sitting here railing against the teams he's played against?
Myles Garrett plays against no one( teams!!)
Derek Barnett racks up stats against weak SEC teams....but look at the LTs!!!!
Man how come you don't say go look at the tackles Garrett has played against instead of sitting here railing against the teams he's played against?
Posted on 4/21/17 at 8:24 pm to Lester Earl
Because by and large SEC has the better tackles. Yes it was a generalization but you can go look and see how many drafted or soon to be drafted LTs he's faced vs. Garrett and how they did against those players.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 8:35 pm to bonethug0108
Garrett game logs
2014
11 sacks
8 against Lamar, Rice, and Louisiana-Monroe. They have legit tackles right?
2015
11.5 sacks
5.5 against Arizona State and Nevada
2016
8.5 sacks
4.5 against Texas-San Antonio
Total
31 sacks
18 against teams I know had shite tackles. That's more than half. That's not even looking into the teams I'm unsure of.
Just saying.
2014
11 sacks
8 against Lamar, Rice, and Louisiana-Monroe. They have legit tackles right?
2015
11.5 sacks
5.5 against Arizona State and Nevada
2016
8.5 sacks
4.5 against Texas-San Antonio
Total
31 sacks
18 against teams I know had shite tackles. That's more than half. That's not even looking into the teams I'm unsure of.
Just saying.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 9:21 pm to bonethug0108
Barnett 2014
9 sacks
1 sack vs. 1st rounder DJ Humphries
2 sacks vs. 1st rounder Laremy Tunsil
3 sacks vs. 7th rounder Corey Robinson
2 sacks vs. UDFA (but still in the NFL) Darrian Miller
8 sacks against player that made it to the nfl (and I believe the player he got his other sack against is trying to get in this year).
2015
10 sacks
1 sack vs. Orlando Brown (could have entered draft as a rs sophomore this year)
1 sack vs. 5th rounder John Theus
1 sack vs. projected 1st rounder Cam Robinson
2 sacks vs. UDFA Jordan Swindle
1 sack vs. 5th rounder Brandon Shell.
1 sack vs. Michael Banogu who is entering the draft this year and will likely be an UDFA
2 sacks vs. projected 4th-6th rounder Will Holden
9 sacks against players in the nfl or soon will be.
2016
13 sacks
2 sacks vs. projected 3rd-5th rounder David Sharpe
2 sacks vs. projected 7th rounder Tyler Catalina
1 sack vs. projected UDFA Avery Gennesy
1 sack vs. projected 1st rounder Cam Robinson
3 sacks vs. projected UDFA Mason Zandi
1 sack vs. 2018 38th ranked tackle Cole Mosier
1 sack vs. 2018 32nd ranked tackle Tyler Howell
1 sack vs. projected 4th-6th rounder Will Holden
1 sack vs. 2019 16th ranked guard (played LT this year) Nick Gates
That's 10 sacks against guys that will be in the nfl and 3 more that have a good shot to be in the nfl.
All together he has 27 sacks against players that are or will be in the nfl this year, and 3 more against players that very likely will be.
That's an extremely high percent of his sacks against nfl caliber opponents.
Compared to Garrett who has more than half of his sacks against guys who aren't or didn't enter the draft (maybe even a higher percent as I didn't even check the other 13.
9 sacks
1 sack vs. 1st rounder DJ Humphries
2 sacks vs. 1st rounder Laremy Tunsil
3 sacks vs. 7th rounder Corey Robinson
2 sacks vs. UDFA (but still in the NFL) Darrian Miller
8 sacks against player that made it to the nfl (and I believe the player he got his other sack against is trying to get in this year).
2015
10 sacks
1 sack vs. Orlando Brown (could have entered draft as a rs sophomore this year)
1 sack vs. 5th rounder John Theus
1 sack vs. projected 1st rounder Cam Robinson
2 sacks vs. UDFA Jordan Swindle
1 sack vs. 5th rounder Brandon Shell.
1 sack vs. Michael Banogu who is entering the draft this year and will likely be an UDFA
2 sacks vs. projected 4th-6th rounder Will Holden
9 sacks against players in the nfl or soon will be.
2016
13 sacks
2 sacks vs. projected 3rd-5th rounder David Sharpe
2 sacks vs. projected 7th rounder Tyler Catalina
1 sack vs. projected UDFA Avery Gennesy
1 sack vs. projected 1st rounder Cam Robinson
3 sacks vs. projected UDFA Mason Zandi
1 sack vs. 2018 38th ranked tackle Cole Mosier
1 sack vs. 2018 32nd ranked tackle Tyler Howell
1 sack vs. projected 4th-6th rounder Will Holden
1 sack vs. 2019 16th ranked guard (played LT this year) Nick Gates
That's 10 sacks against guys that will be in the nfl and 3 more that have a good shot to be in the nfl.
All together he has 27 sacks against players that are or will be in the nfl this year, and 3 more against players that very likely will be.
That's an extremely high percent of his sacks against nfl caliber opponents.
Compared to Garrett who has more than half of his sacks against guys who aren't or didn't enter the draft (maybe even a higher percent as I didn't even check the other 13.
This post was edited on 4/22/17 at 12:16 am
Posted on 4/21/17 at 9:45 pm to bonethug0108
The best offensive line men in Saints history are from
La tech & bloomsburg and currently Arkansas pine bluff.
So to assume they all have shite tackles is lazy
La tech & bloomsburg and currently Arkansas pine bluff.
So to assume they all have shite tackles is lazy
Posted on 4/21/17 at 9:46 pm to bonethug0108
And to assume that all these sacks came 1on 1 with these players is ridiculous
Posted on 4/21/17 at 10:07 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
So to assume they all have shite tackles is lazy
I didn't assume. I actually looked up the teams' rosters I listed.
Then to verify I checked the database of players drafted from those teams.
Guess what? None of those teams tackles I mentioned for Garrett made it to the nfl. None of them are on the way to the nfl. They just aren't good players.
How about actually researching yourself instead of assuming I'm assuming.
18 of 31 sacks against absolute shite competition for Garrett.
13 sacks I have not verified.
Garrett racked up sacks against inferior opponents and LARGELY disappeared against top end teams.
Research Les. Research.
Edit:
And this isn't even to try and knock Garrett. It's to prove the point that the clear #1 draft pick made his name against shite, yet Barnett CONSISTENTLY did his thing against top teams and top competition but isn't going to make it because of combine numbers.
Guess what? You prove on tape you can hang with NFL caliber players, maybe you can hang with NFL caliber players.
This post was edited on 4/21/17 at 10:36 pm
Posted on 4/21/17 at 11:26 pm to bonethug0108
So just to recap, at least 18 of Garrett's 31 sacks came against guys that will NEVER make it to the nfl.
27 of 32 of Barnett's sacks (with possibly another 3) came against players that are or will be in the nfl.
Knock him all you want but the guy has proven to be extremely consistent and that he most definitely can hang with nfl caliber players. He didn't rack up a bunch of garbage sacks against garbage players.
27 of 32 of Barnett's sacks (with possibly another 3) came against players that are or will be in the nfl.
Knock him all you want but the guy has proven to be extremely consistent and that he most definitely can hang with nfl caliber players. He didn't rack up a bunch of garbage sacks against garbage players.
This post was edited on 4/22/17 at 12:18 am
Posted on 4/22/17 at 12:22 am to bonethug0108
a fitting tweet this evening
Posted on 4/22/17 at 12:34 am to blueslover
Not even I am going that far. I'm just sick of the rhetoric that Barnett won't be good because combine.
He has PROVEN he can do it against nfl caliber talent. His 3 cone was great. His production was great. His tape looks great. He didn't rack up garbage sacks or tackles. Great hands. Great body bend.
But starting off he is sorely lacking in pass rush moves and can learn to take a better angle to the QB on his outside rush (too often got pushed past the QB, otherwise his production would be insane).
You teach him a spin move and how to bend the edge and he could be great. As it is he will be at least a solid 8-10 sack guy.
He has PROVEN he can do it against nfl caliber talent. His 3 cone was great. His production was great. His tape looks great. He didn't rack up garbage sacks or tackles. Great hands. Great body bend.
But starting off he is sorely lacking in pass rush moves and can learn to take a better angle to the QB on his outside rush (too often got pushed past the QB, otherwise his production would be insane).
You teach him a spin move and how to bend the edge and he could be great. As it is he will be at least a solid 8-10 sack guy.
Posted on 4/22/17 at 12:55 am to bonethug0108
Why barnett at 11 when you can Derek rivers at 42? It's not like this is a hard decision for someone with a brain. Rivers has all those measurables of an ELITE pass rusher plus the game tape. McCaffrey at 11, corner at 32, and rivers at 42 and you're talking about a black and gold super bowl padnas
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