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Message
re: Gavin McInnes: Alt-right v. Alt-Lite
Posted on 4/17/17 at 11:33 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 4/17/17 at 11:33 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
he claims the label, but a lot of the message/ideals behind people claiming the "alt-right" wasn't white nationalism or anti-jew bullshite. now many who claim it do believe these things, which is why i am enjoying this distinction. it makes it more clear for all sides. people who mislabeled themselves "alt-right" can now correctly label themselves as "alt-lite", the current version of teh "alt-right" can hate on them like they do everyone else, and progs lose the "they're all racists" message for the "alt-lite". win win win
Counterpoint from the left: "You're a racist nazi."
Identifying as alt lite does nothing, literally nothing to convince the left that you aren't a Nazi fascist. You can scream it until you're blue in the face, but so long as you constantly act on the defensive and play the game by the left's rules in the "racist" debate, you're always going to lose.
If you allow the left to set the frame, which in the case is being able to define what is and isn't racist, then you will forever lose. There is not a damn thing you will ever do that will convince them that you are not the reincarnation of Hitler.
This is why your only choice at this point is to respond with the agree and amplify method in order to force them to respond and debate on YOUR terms. Force them to debate the facts and the issues by literally agreeing with and amplifying their premise. Because liberals never have any substance to their arguments, this always causes a nuclear meltdown in their brains as they struggle to come up with a response while their brain reboots. The entire liberal shtick is to shut you down with claims of racism. By flipping it around, you turn the tables and control the argument.
1
Posted on 4/17/17 at 11:38 am to Tiguar
quote:I didn't think the sarcasm was terribly subtle but here goes: I asked the question while linking a position paper showing less legal immigration to make the point that at best, Trump's views are contradictory and unrevealing. The fact that you provided evidence furthering this contradiction doesn't prove the point because the point of the debate isn't what Trump believes, it's what this gaseous "alt-lite" believes and how it's substantively different.
It was apparent what was happening when iosh went full lawyer and asserted victory even after being presented with the evidence he requested
This post was edited on 4/17/17 at 11:46 am
Posted on 4/17/17 at 11:39 am to uway
quote:
I have eyes to see what multiculturalism leads to,
i'm talking about ethnicity and not culture/ideas. i already said that i believe in promoting/defending ideas
i don't believe in multiculturalism, or at least the belief that all cultures are equal (or anything close)
quote:
I like Western civilization and think it better than all others (at least as it was before progressivism)
again. same comment above
quote:
What's your argument that I shouldn't think what I think?
i think you (and Iosh for that matter) are investing far too much in the association of culture and race
Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and South Korea adopting important aspects of Western culture into their own culture led to their leap ahead of pretty much all other asian countries. India and China moving more towards a Western economic system is paying huge dividends for their countries. race is irrelevant
on the same token, Boko Haram, ISIS, and Chechnyan terrorists are all very different races with very similar cultural values
would you rather the future of America look like Japan or Chechnya?
Posted on 4/17/17 at 11:45 am to Vander
quote:
Because liberals never have any substance to their arguments
Posted on 4/17/17 at 11:47 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
race is irrelevant
You say that after rattling off a list of Asian countries.
Newsflash: Asians are really smart, and it has everything to do with their "race".
quote:
would you rather the future of America look like Japan or Chechnya
Neither. Japan is doomed demographically, and I assume Chehnya will be Islamic.
Posted on 4/17/17 at 11:54 am to Iosh
Liberal arguments always boil down to "feels", which is why their arguments only work if they are allowed to shut down debate using claims of racism, sexism, islamophobia, or transphobia.
It is hilarious watching conservatives fall to these tactics time and time again though. Apparently principles are not enough to stand up when a liberal decides to start screeching.
It is hilarious watching conservatives fall to these tactics time and time again though. Apparently principles are not enough to stand up when a liberal decides to start screeching.
Posted on 4/17/17 at 11:54 am to uway
quote:
Newsflash: Asians are really smart, and it has everything to do with their "race".
explains why HK was so far ahead of the mainland for so long and the differences in NK and SK...or why Japan had such a higher standard of living than the other nations (except HK, which is a hybrid) for so long...OR why some of the poorest countries on earth are in Asia
quote:
Neither. Japan is doomed demographically, and I assume Chehnya will be Islamic.
i'm just talking about the culture/race components
Posted on 4/17/17 at 12:01 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
explains why HK was so far ahead of the mainland for so long and the differences in NK and SK...or why Japan had such a higher standard of living than the other nations (except HK, which is a hybrid) for so long...OR why some of the poorest countries on earth are in Asia
So Asians aren't generally intelligent compared to other races? Is that your assertion? Or are you just saying that it's irrelevant?
quote:
i'm just talking about the culture/race components
I don't think you can separate the two as you seem to want to. Certainly it's true that ideas matter, but that doesn't render genetics irrelevant.
I guess I'm not sure what you are advocating.
I'm responding to this reflexive need to fight racism that really just amounts to moral posturing while the barbarians sharpen their spears.
Unless we change our thinking, Africa is really going to spill out of its borders, in your lifetime, and completely alter the demographics of all Western nations. Do you honestly believe that western culture will survive that?
Posted on 4/17/17 at 12:05 pm to uway
Western culture is not so weak as to succumb to an immigrant influx.
Western culture spreads; it does not recede outside of violent intervention (Islam)
Western culture spreads; it does not recede outside of violent intervention (Islam)
Posted on 4/17/17 at 12:10 pm to uway
quote:
So Asians aren't generally intelligent compared to other races? Is that your assertion? Or are you just saying that it's irrelevant?
it's irrelevant when faced with cultural values and the impacts of those values
for the sake of argument i'll go along and say "asians are the most intelligent race on earth". then i'll point to those same differences (in some cases extreme) and show that intelligence alone can be outweighed. frick just look at the diversion of the Korean peninsula over the past 50 years. you're almost doing a legitimate "twin study" because the genetics are the same
quote:
I don't think you can separate the two as you seem to want to.
we've done 2 experiments in this in real time the past 100 years. you can see the results in Germany and Korea to come to your own conclusions
quote:
but that doesn't render genetics irrelevant.
i never said that, but just looking at the outputs of Asia clearly show that culture is more important than race or intelligence
Posted on 4/17/17 at 12:12 pm to Tiguar
quote:
Western culture is not so weak as to succumb to an immigrant influx.
Western culture spreads; it does not recede outside of violent intervention (Islam)
and those within Western cultures who are promoting the policies that would do all these negative things are really enemies with Western culture before anything else. the real war is over those values, which is why (to get back to OP) i don't mind a new label that makes it harder to call me a racist for supporting superior values (that cultural marxists hate)
Posted on 4/17/17 at 12:13 pm to Tiguar
quote:
Western culture is not so weak as to succumb to an immigrant influx.
Western culture spreads; it does not recede outside of violent intervention (Islam)
Dude, are you from the South? Every town that I know anything about proves the opposite of your assertion.
Unless when you say "it spreads", you mean white people flee to suburbs while crime and poverty erode cities from within.
We can't spread Western culuture to our current neighbors who have been here for 400 years. How are we going to do it when boatloads of immigrants arrive daily? We simply won't. It's impossible.
Posted on 4/17/17 at 12:22 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i never said that, but just looking at the outputs of Asia clearly show that culture is more important than race or intelligence
So show me a less intelligent population that has created or embraced a culture that you would put on par with what Europe created.
quote:
for the sake of argument i'll go along and say "asians are the most intelligent race on earth". then i'll point to those same differences (in some cases extreme) and show that intelligence alone can be outweighed. frick just look at the diversion of the Korean peninsula over the past 50 years. you're almost doing a legitimate "twin study" because the genetics are the same
Right, all other things being equal, ideas and culture are supremely important.
Given what you know about Korea, suppose that the dictatorship is toppled and NK is taken over by SK and a coalition of foreign governments with the goal of creating a stable, peaceful democracy. How would you rate their chances of success? And would you really not take into account the genetic characteristics of the population?
Posted on 4/17/17 at 12:26 pm to uway
quote:
So show me a less intelligent population that has created or embraced a culture that you would put on par with what Europe created.
that was easy
quote:
Given what you know about Korea, suppose that the dictatorship is toppled and NK is taken over by SK and a coalition of foreign governments with the goal of creating a stable, peaceful democracy. How would you rate their chances of success?
at like a 99.999999% certainty
quote:
And would you really not take into account the genetic characteristics of the population?
nope. not after the past 50 years
Posted on 4/17/17 at 1:02 pm to uway
quote:
And would you really not take into account the genetic characteristics of the population?
The same genetics that have allowed South Korea to become an economic powerhouse and world leader of technology? Those genetics???
Posted on 4/17/17 at 1:18 pm to CptRusty
yup. THOSE genetics
Posted on 4/17/17 at 1:23 pm to uway
quote:
. How are we going to do it when boatloads of immigrants arrive daily?
Very simple. We do not permit western-culture rejecting immigrants to come here in the first place. It's almost like that's a point someone made in this very thread. I'll have to go back and check.
Posted on 4/17/17 at 1:25 pm to uway
quote:
We can't spread Western culuture to our current neighbors who have been here for 400 years. How are we going to do it when boatloads of immigrants arrive daily? We simply won't. It's impossible.
Western culture is everywhere. Most of the world's clothing is Western. From suits to jeans to t-shirts. Most of the music is inspired from Western sources. The same goes for technology and literally every area of academia, from tech research to the social sciences to the humanities.
I think you are so involved in the microcosm of immediate experience that you don't see how massive and persuasive Western culture is.
Posted on 4/17/17 at 2:14 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
there is nothing wrong or immoral with a group defending and preserving itself
it is done every day and celebrated when all other groups do it, except for whites
supremacist doctrine is where the line crossing begins
The problem is defining groups by race. And don't turn it about. It's wrong when other races do it.
Are you preserving the skinheads? The Finns? The West Syrians? The Montenegrins? The Serbs?
Your average American at the turn of last century would see English, Norwegians, and Germans, as a completely different type of group than Spaniards, Italians, Irish, and Ukrainians.
So, which 'white' are you preserving? Do I figure in as a plurality-Basque mutt?
Posted on 4/17/17 at 2:20 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
Your average American at the turn of last century would see English, Norwegians, and Germans, as a completely different type of group than Spaniards, Italians, Irish, and Ukrainians.
So, which 'white' are you preserving? Do I figure in as a plurality-Basque mutt?
i agree with you, fwiw
i am also a mutt and see people who want to "preserve whiteness" not really understanding what "white" is.
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