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re: Gavin McInnes: Alt-right v. Alt-Lite
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:08 pm to Iosh
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:08 pm to Iosh
quote:
but Hispanic culture is mostly Spanish, just like American culture is mostly British. It seems odd to have a definition of "Western" that reads out Spain.
well Latin populations have in large part adopted socialism as a response to the "Western" colonialism they fought
obviously modern Spain is pretty socialist, too, but it's all contextual. modern, Spanish socialism has little relation to the genesis or promulgation of socialist beliefs in the Latin world.
2
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:09 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
ow if you compare my ideals to most conservative-Muslim cultures? almost no overlap. they in large number support non-secular societies, have a very limited concept of rights, and often even do not have similar valuations of property. we're not going to agree on much
Well the Qu'ran itself discusses property rights very thoroughly. There are three types of land, one for the state, one for the public, and one for private individuals. The socialist movements after WWII have a bigger effect on property rights than the religious sources. The bigger issue in Islam which prevents future growth is the issue of interest. It's very difficult to have growth long term without interest.
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:10 pm to SlowFlowPro
Western culture doesn't necessarily exclude socialism.
Scots are incredibly socialist
Scots are incredibly socialist
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:10 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
there are still quite a few.
Name them.
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:10 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
like constant references to terrible past policies like colonialism or slavery?
It's always a deflection. Colonialism wasn't great for the colonized, but the responses to it have been by and large regressive.
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:11 pm to Tiguar
quote:
Western culture doesn't necessarily exclude socialism.
Modern socialism is straight up out of the Western history of ideas.
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:14 pm to Iosh
quote:
Why is it inherently bad for people with significantly different genetic makeups to live together?
I think it leads to mimetic conflict, especially when combined with the Western idea of the equality of mankind. You see here that we can't even have a discussion about genetic differences (though I appreciate you listening to me instead of only immediately labeling me racist), and in America today you have this idea that "everybody can make it", and if you don't it used to mean you didn't try hard enough and now means that someone else was holding you down. But neither one of those is a fair reading of what's happening.
With diverse populations, you are going to have divergent results and class struggles. The more diverse, the more conflict, because there will be inequality of results regardless of effort. It is inevitable.
What do you think will really happen if we import millions of Africans? We already have highly segregated cities with people of moderate means leaving as quickly as they can while the elite live behind gates.
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:16 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Modern socialism is straight up out of the Western history of ideas.
100%
like i said last page, "Western culture" is just a cop-out b/c it's easy
socialism is a direct attack on property rights, though, which is why it's a violation of the set of bleiefs
we can use whatever label y'all want for that set of ideas i listed. Western culture has become toxic anyway so it's whatever to me. will probably clarify things
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:19 pm to uway
quote:
What do you think will really happen if we import millions of Africans?
If we imported a couple million African infants, raised them in families that valued education and pushed them to achieve in the same way that typical middle to upper class Americans raise their children, then my prediction is that we would have a couple million more "successful", integrated, and happy Africans in 20 years or so.
If we took a couple million teenage through early adulthood Africans and plopped them on the streets...we'd have a couple of million new government dependents.
agree or disagree?
This post was edited on 4/17/17 at 3:21 pm
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:19 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Define socialist.
well Latin populations have in large part adopted socialism as a response to the "Western" colonialism they fought
obviously modern Spain is pretty socialist, too, but it's all contextual. modern, Spanish socialism has little relation to the genesis or promulgation of socialist beliefs in the Latin world.
EDIT: This probably sounds like a shitpost that will earn a dictionary link, but I'm genuinely confused at where you're getting literally anything you said here. Latin America didn't say "frick you dad" and turn socialist in the 19th century. If their more left-wing bent is a reaction to anything it's to the juntas we installed during the 20th century.
This post was edited on 4/17/17 at 3:23 pm
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:23 pm to SlowFlowPro
"socialism" is as much of a cop out because it's easy.
Particular economic systems trend to cultures but do not define them. I'd argue the culture is more likely to define the system.
Particular economic systems trend to cultures but do not define them. I'd argue the culture is more likely to define the system.
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:23 pm to Iosh
Exactly my point
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:24 pm to Iosh
The modern socialism of Latin America is based on Marxist revisionism, isn't it? The turn was relatively late.
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:28 pm to crazy4lsu
"The places in the Arab world which are wealthy are coincidentally far more liberal."
I'm not sure it's quite this simple. Saudi Arabia has wealth and it is extremely conservative.
I'm not sure it's quite this simple. Saudi Arabia has wealth and it is extremely conservative.
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:30 pm to N.O. via West-Cal
The populations are far more liberal than their fathers, a pattern which will continue. The west won't see those gains for another 50 years though.
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:32 pm to Iosh
my delay was due to writing checks and getting my cover letters and vouchers in order to mail to the IRS
as Latins have always described the values to me, it involves revolutionary rhetoric. if that's a revolution from those who originally led the revolution against Spain, then fine, that comment was wrong. the main point was that the motherland and Latin countries reached their socialist statuses completely separately
as Latins have always described the values to me, it involves revolutionary rhetoric. if that's a revolution from those who originally led the revolution against Spain, then fine, that comment was wrong. the main point was that the motherland and Latin countries reached their socialist statuses completely separately
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:36 pm to roadGator
quote:
Name them.
Why?
If there's one thing I've noticed about the racists on the board is that they hate to be called out. I don't know why they don't just own it.
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:37 pm to SlowFlowPro
How much of that do you figure is due to their Catholic background?
Can see latinos being more family/downtrodden focused when everyone is raised Catholic.
Can see latinos being more family/downtrodden focused when everyone is raised Catholic.
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:39 pm to Tiguar
i think that's a very nice tool for people who want to destroy property rights to use. you even see progs (who are not religious and hate Christians) use that angle here in the US today (same with immigration, honestly)
Posted on 4/17/17 at 3:39 pm to uway
quote:Immigrants have a vastly different idea of "making it" than native-born populations. They're often happy simply making ends meet while not getting shaken down for bribes or hassled for their religion/politics. While I agree the idea that "everybody can make it" is a simplification, it's one that would exist independently of what level of immigration currently exists. To the extent it causes conflict, that conflict isn't from immigrants themselves, but from those who got left behind having an easy scapegoat.
I think it leads to mimetic conflict, especially when combined with the Western idea of the equality of mankind. You see here that we can't even have a discussion about genetic differences (though I appreciate you listening to me instead of only immediately labeling me racist), and in America today you have this idea that "everybody can make it", and if you don't it used to mean you didn't try hard enough and now means that someone else was holding you down. But neither one of those is a fair reading of what's happening.
With diverse populations, you are going to have divergent results and class struggles. The more diverse, the more conflict, because there will be inequality of results regardless of effort. It is inevitable.
What do you think will really happen if we import millions of Africans? We already have highly segregated cities with people of moderate means leaving as quickly as they can while the elite live behind gates.
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