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Started By
Message
re: Texas AG sued to keep a Bible quote in school. Now he’s troubled by Muslim prayers.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 8:28 am to ShortyRob
Posted on 3/20/17 at 8:28 am to ShortyRob
quote:Well said.
This seems to be another one of those things where the primary reason there's a problem is because we have gotten so fricking bad at distinguishing between ALLOWING something and SUPPORTING something.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 8:29 am to RedRifle
I have no problem with what these kids want to do. Let them pray on their own time.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 8:30 am to germandawg
quote:
Well that puts the lie to the old meme that Arabs were better at mathematics and science than 'Mericans....7 years to get through a public high school in Texas is indicative of a serious learning disability....
They are likely better at math than you are at reading comprehension, it would seem
quote:
“This is the seventh year we’ve been doing this, and we’ve never had one issue,” school principal Scott Warstler said.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 8:30 am to DawgsLife
quote:Why did you keep saying club?
I wonder if they would allow a Christians Club
Posted on 3/20/17 at 8:30 am to weagle99
I'm all for anything that reduces Muslim influence in our country. Their ideology is not compatible with judo Christian values our country was built on.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 8:41 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
schools do not allow Christian Clubs even when they meet after school.
Which is not the same as praying. A club is usually a school sponsored organization.
So praying is allowed on shool grounds during school hours....even to the point of walking out of class..but meeting after school hours is not for any Christian activity? makes perfect sense.
quote:
And, when they are telling teachers they cannot have a Bible on their desk, even though they are not using the Bible to proselytize.
And I would expect the Koran to be put away too.
Unfortunately for you this was taken to the courts and found to be overreach by the schools. The courts ruled it was ok for the teacher to have a Bible on his desk.
quote:
How can you allow some to pray in the school with access to school rooms and not allow a teacher to have a personal Bible anywhere on their desks?
Because the prayer is in a separate room so it's not clearly visible. The Bible is clearly visible, and the teacher works for the government. Students =/= as teachers.
Oh. Yeah. Good point. 10 students get up and leave the room every day and the other students have no way of knowing why, right? Dude. Your problem is secrecy?
And again...the courts disagree with your evaluation.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 8:53 am to DawgsLife
quote:
How can you allow some to pray in the school with access to school rooms and not allow a teacher to have a personal Bible anywhere on their desks?
1) Teachers are representatives of the school. Their actions can be imputed to the school
2) Teachers have a position of authority over their students.
3) The students praying in a separate room helps eliminate any chance the school is seen as supporting it. It is just something they do.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 9:02 am to ShortyRob
quote:
Explain
I find it to be a good thing. What explanation do you need?
Posted on 3/20/17 at 9:22 am to Gaspergou202
quote:
My, don't we swing a huge brush of dead center right on the money hammer on the head of the nail truth!
Fixed it for you.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 9:33 am to ShortyRob
quote:
"I shouldn't have to see shite I don't like"
No. This is not the issue, or at least it shouldn't be for anyone with any amount of intelligence. I'm certainly not offended because people want to believe something that I don't believe.
There are reasons we have to do things like this. One of those is because there are people who would take the opportunity to indoc students into their personal beliefs. That can never be allowed to happen in our public schools. Ever. I don't care if people don't like it, and I don't care how they perceive it. That isn't "freedom of expression" and it isn't protected by anything, especially the Constitution.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 9:39 am to RedRifle
I'm all for the Texas AG using his position to oppose assaults on Christ, who is Lord over all governments, but he needs to make sure he's got all of the facts before making statements that aren't accurate, such as the issue of the school claiming they weren't contacted as part of the preliminary investigation that the AG said took place.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 9:42 am to RedRifle
As long as it's voluntary, why shouldn't students be permitted to gather and pray during their free time on school grounds?
Posted on 3/20/17 at 9:50 am to RedRifle
Religion does not need to be in public school. Pray on your own time outside of school or at your place of worship. If not, be willing to provide exceptions for all. If you're willing to make accommodations for a Christian, then make sure to provide them for a Muslim, a Scientologist, etc. The First Amendment is not just for Christians.
Also, realize Muslims have been in America since the colonial era. Thomas Jefferson kept a copy of the Qu'ran in his library. Morocco was the first nation to recognize the U.S. as an independent nation and the monarch exchanged correspondence with George Washington and was a friend.
And remember the Treaty of Tripoli, signed after our war with the Barbary states. It was passed unanimously by the US Senate in 1797 and signed by President John Adams, all founding fathers. It states in the 11th article: "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
John Adams signed the treaty with a note that read: "Now be it known, That I John Adams, President of the United States of America, having seen and considered the said Treaty do, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof. And to the End that the said Treaty may be observed, and performed with good Faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; And I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof."
The US is not a Christian nation. Accept it.
Also, realize Muslims have been in America since the colonial era. Thomas Jefferson kept a copy of the Qu'ran in his library. Morocco was the first nation to recognize the U.S. as an independent nation and the monarch exchanged correspondence with George Washington and was a friend.
And remember the Treaty of Tripoli, signed after our war with the Barbary states. It was passed unanimously by the US Senate in 1797 and signed by President John Adams, all founding fathers. It states in the 11th article: "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
John Adams signed the treaty with a note that read: "Now be it known, That I John Adams, President of the United States of America, having seen and considered the said Treaty do, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof. And to the End that the said Treaty may be observed, and performed with good Faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; And I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof."
The US is not a Christian nation. Accept it.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 9:51 am to DisplacedBuckeye
You laugh but it's true. Christian influence is waning in this country and enemies of Christ are becoming bolder in their attacks against the Christian faith.
"If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you." - John 15:18
"If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you." - John 15:18
Posted on 3/20/17 at 10:00 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Christian influence is waning in this country
That is an absolute positive.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 10:18 am to DawgsLife
quote:No I'm saying that a club is a school sponsored organization.
but meeting after school hours is not for any Christian activity? makes perfect sense.
quote:And I don't personally care if it's on the desk, but a teacher is viewed differently than the students since the public school teacher a representative of the government.
Unfortunately for you this was taken to the courts and found to be overreach by the schools. The courts ruled it was ok for the teacher to have a Bible on his desk.
quote:I'm not arguing secrecy; I'm arguing the privacy, and the practicality of the expression within a setting. Going to a private room to pray, is a private display as opposed to doing it in the classroom.
Oh. Yeah. Good point. 10 students get up and leave the room every day and the other students have no way of knowing why, right? Dude. Your problem is secrecy?
I wouldn't care if a Christian did the same, so I don't see what your issue is exactly.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 10:22 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
Why did you keep saying club?
That's what they used to call it when I was in school many, many, many, many years ago. Clubs would meet after school. FCA, Chess Club, FFA, FHA Etc.
Am I misunderstanding what you are asking?
Posted on 3/20/17 at 10:24 am to DawgsLife
quote:What I'm saying is that a club is sponsored by a school. So a club is not comparable to individuals praying.
That's what they used to call it when I was in school many, many, many, many years ago. Clubs would meet after school. FCA, Chess Club, FFA, FHA Etc.
Am I misunderstanding what you are asking?
Posted on 3/20/17 at 10:25 am to CorporateTiger
quote:
3) The students praying in a separate room helps eliminate any chance the school is seen as supporting it. It is just something they do.
So the school can allow Muslims to leave class and pray on school grounds, during school hours, but they cannot allow Christians to meet after school hours on school grounds because of separation of church and state, and allowing them(Christians) to use school facilities would be like the school was supporting religion? No contradiction there, right?
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