re: Why can't people understand that socialized medicine will ultimately fail?

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Trumps wall or 10 new medical schools.

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Well you unwittingly opened Pandora's Box with that gem, CD.

Indeed we do limit training numbers of doctors along with interns and medical residents and subspecialty fellows. Money is not the driver for those limitations though. In fact, the Federal Government in all its amazing wisdom has not only overseen the limitations, it has actually paid programs to limit their training slots.

Why?

Because when patients see doctors it costs money. So if there are fewer doctors to see, less money will be spent.

. . . . and no, I am not kidding.

Yet, you want these same Bozos in charge of universal care.

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Congress rubber stamps AMA, no?

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Nope.

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Where is it written?
Or at least a quoting of some authority.

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New York hospitals paid to teach fewer physicians

Milan Korcok
In brief

IN ORDER TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF PHYSICIANS being trained in the US, teaching hos- pitals in New York are going to be paid not to train residents. Participating hospi- tals will cut the number of residents they train by up to 25%, but for a time will be paid as if they are still teaching a full complement of trainees. Up to 400 residency positions will be cut annually under the plan.

LINK

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U.S. to Pay New York Hospitals Not to Train Doctors

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An influential report that urges sweeping changes in how the federal government subsidizes the training of doctors has brought out the sharp scalpels of those who would be most immediately affected.

The reaction also raises questions about the sensitive politics involved in redistributing a large pot of money –mostly from Medicare — that now goes disproportionately to teaching hospitals in the U.S. Northeast. All of the changes recommended would have to be made by Congress.

The report for the Institute of Medicine, released Tuesday, called for more accountability in the distribution of the federal funds earmarked for doctor training — $15 billion annually. About two-thirds of that cash comes from Medicare.
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But the broader-based doctor group, the American Medical Association, reacted negatively, saying: "Despite the fact that workforce experts predict a shortage of more than 45,000 primary care and 46,000 specialty physicians in the U.S. by 2020, the report provides no clear solution."

Wilensky says that's because her panel didn't agree with studies that project there's going to be a shortage of doctors. Rapid changes in medical practice, she says — including the greatly increased use of nonphysician health professionals, such as physician assistants and nurse practitioners — might be enough to provide care to aging baby boomers and people now getting insurance coverage under the Affordable Care Act.

LINK

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The AMA does the same thing the ADA does and they both have lobbyists to make sure they can protect the incomes of their members (physicians and dentists).

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FYI, the AMA does not give a rat's arse about much of anything outside of preservation of its CPT licensing arrangements.

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This is entirely fair, and as per usual things tend to move forward when we listen to one another instead of retreating to our tribes. I am curious of the wait times for treatment in Singapore as that, more than anything else, seems to be the right's biggest point in this discussion, and rightfully so....I mean what good is a surgery if you need it tomorrow but cannot get it until next week? There is also the issue of the inevitable death panels I haven't seen brought up, but perhaps that's another topic for another time.

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This is about the best primer I have found on Singapore's system, warning, it is not a light read haha, especially if you are a bit hungover:

LINK

Waiting times is something I have not found much comparative data on with regards to Singapore. TBH though, one could probably try to take some of the internal studies Singapore releases about satisfaction and waiting times and try and do a rough cross examination with stuff from Kaiser or OECD. But I haven't done that.

One thing to keep in mind with Singapore though, is that while it is often framed as some "free market" beacon of successful UHC, and one of the more common rationales I hear for supporting Health Savings Accounts, its not quite that simple.

While Singapore uses lots of things conservatives talk a lot about: Health-savings accounts, private delivery of care, lower government spending footprint etc. Truth is the country started out modeling itself after England(being a former British colony). So the government owned everything and while it trended toward privatization it is actually a very heavily government controlled country. The government pretty much sets the ceiling of prices for what they deem as "essential services," which encompasses quite a lot. And public delivery of care is still very prominent. It also features subsidized care for the poor on a sliding scale of income(similar to Obamacare). But it is a fascinating case study in a more unique way that UHC has been achieved. Though I am not sure how realistic it would be to implement here. At the end of the day though it regularly ranks in the top 5 or so of healthcare systems in the world and it is hard not to consider it a major success.

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Why can't people understand that socialized medicine will ultimately fail? by PoundFoolish

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...but...but...

OP is claiming that the American people are not capable of designing a plan that works for all?

Why the negativity? because others failed in the past.

we are the can-do generation. the WW II generation gets props for organizing a war effort. we can organize society to provide first class education and health care. So far we lag behind the northern Euros and the Asians.

Finland kicks our butt in education.
Holland kicks our butt in health care.
we are in the middle of the pack around #51 with Slovenia on both.

best country to live in?
polls we saw on TD yesterday has Canada, England and Sweden ahead of us.
I find this amazing because they have terrible weather. dark winters, all three.

They do all have socialist medical systems.

I would prefer to offer both medicare for anyone who wants in, and facilitate competition from platinum plans for the well to do. I am not against your spending $2 million a year on the latest greatest. the rest of us will be under the domination of the death panel.

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I would prefer to offer both medicare for anyone who wants in, and facilitate competition from platinum plans for the well to do. I am not against your spending $2 million a year on the latest greatest. the rest of us will be under the domination of the death panel.

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For this to happen providers would have to start saying "no!" To the $2milliok treatments. That won't happpen. They are too scared of lawsuits. They don't want to whither the "hospital leaves child to die on the street" headlines.

As long as we have infinite demand--our system will not function in any reasonable manner.

It will be different next time!!

Who cares how awful it is, it's free!