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Message
re: Justification for shootings by cops...
Posted on 7/19/16 at 8:02 pm to dallaslsufan
Posted on 7/19/16 at 8:02 pm to dallaslsufan
quote:
What thus the OT say?
Your friend likes buick regale.
0
Posted on 7/19/16 at 8:07 pm to swanny297
Not what i meant
So a cop walks up to someone who is legally or illegally carrying a gun, open or concealed, and begins talking. It escalates and cop tries to go hands on for whatever reason. A small struggle ensues, cop gets punched a couple of times and the guy breaks contact and takes off. Even if the guy breaks contact and never reaches for the gun but stays there for round two, you can't shoot him.
He resisted. Cop shoots him and he's wrong.
For the record, I am 100% pro law enforcement, I am addressing his hypothetical
quote:
if you resist arrest while possessing a gun, anything that may result from that is justified
So a cop walks up to someone who is legally or illegally carrying a gun, open or concealed, and begins talking. It escalates and cop tries to go hands on for whatever reason. A small struggle ensues, cop gets punched a couple of times and the guy breaks contact and takes off. Even if the guy breaks contact and never reaches for the gun but stays there for round two, you can't shoot him.
He resisted. Cop shoots him and he's wrong.
For the record, I am 100% pro law enforcement, I am addressing his hypothetical
Posted on 7/19/16 at 8:18 pm to zsav77
quote:Very much appreciate your service!
And I'm the same way when it comes to that subject... should be since I've been policing in a federal capacity for 15 years
Posted on 7/19/16 at 8:30 pm to geaux.home
Thank you sir.
I can see where my first post could be construed as mildly questioning the police, so I understand your first response. I jumped somebody else's arse in another thread because their argument was "but the gun was in his pocket".
When the Sterling incident occurred, the next day some parents at the ballfield were discussing it. Not all of the facts had come out yet, but when they asked my opinion, I said it was justified if he was going for a weapon, probably not if he wasn't. Their response was, "did they have to shoot him while he was on the ground? And why so much? I think they are wrong because of that".
At that point, I just shrugged, didn't answer, and turned around. Some of the general populace just can't get it.
I can see where my first post could be construed as mildly questioning the police, so I understand your first response. I jumped somebody else's arse in another thread because their argument was "but the gun was in his pocket".
When the Sterling incident occurred, the next day some parents at the ballfield were discussing it. Not all of the facts had come out yet, but when they asked my opinion, I said it was justified if he was going for a weapon, probably not if he wasn't. Their response was, "did they have to shoot him while he was on the ground? And why so much? I think they are wrong because of that".
At that point, I just shrugged, didn't answer, and turned around. Some of the general populace just can't get it.
This post was edited on 7/19/16 at 8:31 pm
Posted on 7/19/16 at 8:36 pm to dallaslsufan
So your "supposed" to just let the potential possibility that a criminal who has a gun resisting arrest pull it out and shoot you first?
Police report
Well he was reluctant to shoot and the officer was shoot and killed by the suspect with a gun?...frick no....shoot that bitch...if your armed and dangerous....justification...
Let me ask any BLM....if someone break into your house....what will you do? If you dont arm yourself and shoot then your dumb because of the "potential" that this intuder will kill you always exsist.....this is the approach a cop takes....period...
Police report
Well he was reluctant to shoot and the officer was shoot and killed by the suspect with a gun?...frick no....shoot that bitch...if your armed and dangerous....justification...
Let me ask any BLM....if someone break into your house....what will you do? If you dont arm yourself and shoot then your dumb because of the "potential" that this intuder will kill you always exsist.....this is the approach a cop takes....period...
This post was edited on 7/19/16 at 8:38 pm
Posted on 7/19/16 at 8:37 pm to dallaslsufan
He's right. You're heated arguing for guns. God help us.
Posted on 7/19/16 at 8:58 pm to dallaslsufan
quote:
Got in a heated discussion with a friend today...My stance is that if you resist arrest while possessing a gun, anything that may result from that is justified. He is in total disagreement with that thought. What thus the OT say?
Your friend sounds like a pinko commie liberal fig.
Posted on 7/19/16 at 9:01 pm to dallaslsufan
quote:
My stance is that if you resist arrest while possessing a gun, anything that may result from that is justified.
I also disagree. There are entirely too many variables to make such a blanket proclamation. It's both morally and legally wrong.
Posted on 7/19/16 at 9:03 pm to ClientNumber9
I understand the issue with not allowing the militarization of the police and protecting our constitutional rights, but unless we are in a militarized state, which I don't condone, a person should not resist AT ALL nor not obey the officers if you are carrying
Bring the down votes but is you disagree, you are wrong or are not of sound mind and should not be carrying anyway.
Bring the down votes but is you disagree, you are wrong or are not of sound mind and should not be carrying anyway.
Posted on 7/19/16 at 9:05 pm to Breaux
quote:
For the record, I am 100% pro law enforcement
It irks me that people have to say this if they say anything that could be possibly interpreted as not being blind deference to every cop in every situation. You can be supportive and extremely appreciative of law enforcement officers while also wanting them to be held to a high standard and calling them out when they truly frick up.
Posted on 7/19/16 at 9:10 pm to lsu2006
quote:
You can be supportive and extremely appreciative of law enforcement officers while also wanting them to be held to a high standard and calling them out when they truly frick up.
it's a god damn shame i can't upvote this more than once....
Posted on 7/19/16 at 9:13 pm to lsu2006
It is not a quick draw contest. When a law enforcement officer gives an order to a person known to be or reasonably believed to be armed, he does it for his safety AND the safety of the suspect. This is so the investigation may continue in a safe manner. Any person who does not understand this simple concept is a fool. Even if you disengage, you take the risk of getting shot by making any movement with your hands that is contrary to the instructions of the officer. It's that simple. Comply and make the situation safe. It's common sense. I am a gun owner and firm believer in the 2nd amendment. I also know that a law enforcement officer is not a mind reader and cannot determine my intentions by anything other than my actions. If my actions, while armed, are non compliant relative to making the situation safe--it is reasonable for him/her to presume any movement that is not consistent with complying to the instructions given is a threat to his/her safety.
Posted on 7/19/16 at 9:14 pm to dallaslsufan
Your friend is an idiot.
Posted on 7/19/16 at 9:23 pm to michael corleone
quote:
firm believer in the 2nd amendment.
me too, but only in the true historically timeframe of when it was written, along with the context in which it was put in place... i feel that every American should have all the muskets and/or muzzleloaders they want...
Posted on 7/19/16 at 9:58 pm to dallaslsufan
quote:
What thus the OT say?
If the gun is visible at any ponit, then yes, you're taking a risk that the SCOTUS has ruled previously that officers are justified. If there is no gun and you just "think" then that adds a level of complexity.
Bottom line - don't resist and you'll be fine. Yet to see a controversial case where they weren't actively resisting by fighting, running, resisting.
Posted on 7/19/16 at 10:15 pm to zsav77
quote:
Some of the general populace just can't get it.
Same people who think shooting someone in the leg stops them from being a threat. Action movies have given people a false impression of what happens when someone is shot. Limbs don't fly off, you don't fly back 10 ft and become incapacitated from most calibers, and tasers don't instantly put everyone they touch to sleep.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 9:10 am to Scrowe
I'd say if you attack a police (throw punches) even without a gun, you are asking to be shot. All it takes is one punch and his gun and life is in the criminals hands.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 9:18 am to bayourougebengal
quote:
If I'm a cop and you're resisting with a gun in your possession, there's my reasonable belief. You're dying
This is the attitude that is getting cops killed
Posted on 7/20/16 at 5:09 pm to bmy
quote:
bmy
frick you, you piece of garbage. Your attitude toward this whole thing has been very telling.
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