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re: OT Doctors- Why do we become immune to antibiotics?
Posted on 5/26/16 at 8:32 pm to boosiebadazz
Posted on 5/26/16 at 8:32 pm to boosiebadazz
Having a cold pop myself 
0
Posted on 5/26/16 at 8:35 pm to boosiebadazz
Lets just say that a serious outbreak of a superbug should be the doomsday scenario you should be most worried about.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 8:43 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
Department of Defense researchers disclosed Thursday in a report placed online by the journal Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy that a 49-year-old woman who sought medical care at a military-associated clinic in Pennsylvania last month, with what seemed to be a urinary tract infection, was carrying a strain of E. coli that possessed resistance to a wide range of drugs. That turned out to be because the organism carried 15 different genes conferring antibiotic resistance, clustered on two “mobile elements” that can move easily among bacteria. One element included the new, dreaded gene mcr-1.
Welp, we're all fricked.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 9:05 pm to boosiebadazz
Dummies Guide to microbial resistance to antibiotics
It takes 1000 bugs (bacteria) to cause an infection.
The average immune system can only handle 200 bugs by itself.
Doc Prescribes Antibiotics -
- Patient A takes his antibiotics as prescribed for a full 10 days even though at around 300 bugs, or 3 days, he starts to feel better.
- His number of bugs drops to 199.
- His body handles the rest because at that point the immune system has created tools to kill the 199 little frickers. No transfer of genes --> No supermutant bugs.
- Patient B takes his antibiotics for 3 days and then stops because he starts to feel better.
- His dumb arse is left with 500 bugs.
- Let's say 4 of those bugs are not affected by antibiotics due to a random chance or luck.
- His body can't handle all 500 of those bugs and because his dumb arse stopped taking his antibiotics. He doesn't have enough tools yet to fight off all 500. Only 199.
- Next the 4 little frickers start give their resistant instructions any of the 500 bugs left the body hasn't killed itself. They can also replicate creating little fricker grandchildren.
- Then this dumb arse goes and coughs on grandma.
- She gone.
Obviously, it is much more complex.
It takes 1000 bugs (bacteria) to cause an infection.
The average immune system can only handle 200 bugs by itself.
Doc Prescribes Antibiotics -
- Patient A takes his antibiotics as prescribed for a full 10 days even though at around 300 bugs, or 3 days, he starts to feel better.
- His number of bugs drops to 199.
- His body handles the rest because at that point the immune system has created tools to kill the 199 little frickers. No transfer of genes --> No supermutant bugs.
- Patient B takes his antibiotics for 3 days and then stops because he starts to feel better.
- His dumb arse is left with 500 bugs.
- Let's say 4 of those bugs are not affected by antibiotics due to a random chance or luck.
- His body can't handle all 500 of those bugs and because his dumb arse stopped taking his antibiotics. He doesn't have enough tools yet to fight off all 500. Only 199.
- Next the 4 little frickers start give their resistant instructions any of the 500 bugs left the body hasn't killed itself. They can also replicate creating little fricker grandchildren.
- Then this dumb arse goes and coughs on grandma.
- She gone.
Obviously, it is much more complex.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 9:12 pm to Rhino5
quote:
quote:
Department of Defense is involved
They about to nuke her?
DARPA funds projects to use predatory bacterial species. LINK
I work with this in more of an ecological context, but I think there are important lessons that can be learned and eventually applied to human health.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 9:32 pm to Sasquatch Smash
quote:
Antibiotics are overly prescribed in my opinion, but I'm no doctor.
Linking doctor reimbursement to patient satisfaction has only made this worse. People go to a doctor with a cold that's likely viral and demand antibiotics. If you don't give them to the patient, the patient is not satisfied or goes to another doctor who may be more willing to please a patient by giving antibiotics.
Using antibiotics when we don't need to is obviously bad, but it's nothing compared to other countries like India where people can literally go to the market and buy a bag of antibiotics. It's completely unregulated. Another problem is the use of abx in the poultry industry. The birds grow a lot bigger and faster with abx in their system, though, so I'm not sure how you convince the poultry farmers to end the practice.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 10:16 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
The CDC and Department of Defense are involved and they're re-tracing her steps so it must be serious
"I'm from the government and I'm here to help"
Posted on 5/26/16 at 10:25 pm to boosiebadazz
because bugs are smarter than people.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 10:25 pm to Parallax
Bacteria are very adaptable. Even non life threatening ones. I am convinced my son has not had 150 sinus infections but really one that has bacteria that keep adapting. (Reason u need to use sinus rinse and often cocktail of antibiotics and antfungals to get rid of them)
The helicopter h pylori (so) bacteria is an example. It is estimated to be reasonable for 85-90% of all stomach ulcers. The solution a antibiotic cocktail for a month.
Other point drug companies have no interest in creating new antibiotics as they make more money on boner pills etc.
So just like the bible predicted 2000 years ago massive plaques and shite will thin the human herd soon. Not like we don't deserve it. But billions will die.
The helicopter h pylori (so) bacteria is an example. It is estimated to be reasonable for 85-90% of all stomach ulcers. The solution a antibiotic cocktail for a month.
Other point drug companies have no interest in creating new antibiotics as they make more money on boner pills etc.
So just like the bible predicted 2000 years ago massive plaques and shite will thin the human herd soon. Not like we don't deserve it. But billions will die.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 10:31 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:quote:
What do antibiotics do, what are they used to kill, why are they successful, and why do we develop an immunity to them?
YOU never develop immunity to them. Your body isn't the problem. Antibiotics kill bacteria living inside your body by a number of mechanisms.
Basically, there are different groups of antibiotics, each of them doing something different. Broadly, they usually either:
1) stop the bacterial cell wall from being constructed (no cell wall = cell death. This is how penicillin (and the rest of the beta lactams) work
2) stop proteins from being made or folded correctly (these are required for cell replication, so when you stop them, the bacteria can't grow or produce its toxins, so your body can fight it off quicker)
Of course, this is a greatly abbreviated version skimming lots and lots of details. That's what antibiotics do and how they kill/slow bacteria.
Bacteria, however, aren't dumb. They can produce new proteins required for resistance and pass them along, even after they've died, to other bacteria.
The majority of what bacteria do to gain resistance is
1) change the protein the drug binds to slightly so the drug can't bind but the protein still works
2) pump out the protein from the bacterial cell (efflux pump)
3) actually produce an anti-antibiotic (like a beta lactamase, which destroys penicillin. We then add a beta lactamase inhibitor, and instead of amoxicillin, you get amoxicillin-clavulinic acid (Augmentin). It has all the activity of the original + activity against bacteria which produce anti-penicillin beta lactamases. Probably a bit above the level of the answer I think you're asking for, but it's meant to show that there's kind of a dance going between human and bacteria. We find what kills them, they create a type of resistance, so we make the ones we have more potent or attack along a different path).
Feel free to ask any more specific questions you'd like. I'm happy to go into greater detail about any of the above.
And in terms of why they develop resistance, the number 1 and 2 causes are over prescription of antibiotics when they aren't needed, selecting for resistant organisms in our normal flora + frequency with which people don't finish the antibiotic course they were prescribed.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 10:32 pm to PrivatePublic
quote:
This is a war of escalation that we have no chance of winning.
This is false. Please see Colloidal Silverand don't fall for FDA and AMA Propaganda.
As an aside...I'm sure there will be some who will point to the FDA story about CS turning you blue...What they (and the FDA) fail to say is the the person who did turn blue from taking CS, drank 2 quarts a day for 2 years!
Posted on 5/26/16 at 10:52 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
massive plaques
We're doomed!
Posted on 5/26/16 at 10:59 pm to HubbaBubba
See Bull Head Clap
Posted on 5/26/16 at 11:37 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
What do antibiotics do,
Depends on the antibiotic but in general they kill bacteria
quote:
what are they used to kill
bacteria
quote:
why are they successful,
They disrupt normal cell processes and either kill the bacteria or allow the body's immune system to kill it.
quote:
why do we develop an immunity to them?
click here.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 6:05 am to KamaCausey_LSU
Why was this downvoted?
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