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Posted on 5/26/16 at 7:38 pm to Parallax
quote:
Practicing good, evidence based medicine will often just piss off patients.
Docs are paid on patient satisfaction. (this is the new government requirement).
Thus "doctors" create antibiotic resistance and drug addicts.
This post was edited on 5/26/16 at 7:40 pm
Posted on 5/26/16 at 7:38 pm to boosiebadazz
The bacteria in the human stomach is obscenely potent. In fact, it could dissolve a corpse much faster than sodium or potassium hydroxide or limestone. Defeating an antibiotic is no big thing.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 7:39 pm to boosiebadazz
We don't get immune to antibiotics. They work fine on us. The diseases they fight become immune to them. They mutate and get stronger each and every time.
The answer is simple: evolution. But many idiots on this site find it to be a myth.
The answer is simple: evolution. But many idiots on this site find it to be a myth.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 7:44 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
But many idiots on this site find it to be a myth.
Not me. I'm evolutionist all the way. I firmly believe that apes descended from man.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 7:45 pm to boosiebadazz
We do not become immune to antibiotics, but bacteria can.
Whenever an infection is treated with an antibiotic it doesn't always kill every bacterial cell.
A few cells may have an innate immunity or resistance, and begin reproducing again. This problem can be further exacerbated because different bacterial species can share certain traits through horizontal gene transfer.
Different antibiotics work to stop things like cell division or disrupt cell walls. A mutation in a protein expression can keep antibiotics from harming the bacteria.
Whenever an infection is treated with an antibiotic it doesn't always kill every bacterial cell.
A few cells may have an innate immunity or resistance, and begin reproducing again. This problem can be further exacerbated because different bacterial species can share certain traits through horizontal gene transfer.
Different antibiotics work to stop things like cell division or disrupt cell walls. A mutation in a protein expression can keep antibiotics from harming the bacteria.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 7:45 pm to boosiebadazz
Actually her E.Coli isn't resistant to all antibiotics, just the antibiotic of last resort, Colistin.
As for how bacteria gain immunity:
And it appears that the reason that some E.Coli has gotten this resistance might be:
As for how bacteria gain immunity:
quote:
Bacteria develop antibiotic resistance in two ways. Many acquire mutations in their own genomes that allow them to withstand antibiotics, although that ability can't be shared with pathogens outside their own family.
They get infected with something called a plasmid, a small piece of DNA, carrying a gene for antibiotic resistance. That makes resistance genes more dangerous because plasmids can make copies of themselves and transfer the genes they carry to other bugs within the same family as well as jump to other families of bacteria, which can then "catch" the resistance directly without having to develop it through evolution.
And it appears that the reason that some E.Coli has gotten this resistance might be:
quote:
Colistin is widely used in Chinese livestock, and this use probably led bacteria to evolve and gain a resistance to the drug. The gene probably leaped from livestock to human microbes through food
Posted on 5/26/16 at 7:53 pm to Scruffy
quote:
Bacteria create defense mechanisms that make them resistant.
I don't know if this is safe terminology either.
They don't create them.
They luck into them by random mutation.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 7:54 pm to boosiebadazz
Bacteria can evolve and alter their DNA at an alarming rate. If something targets a strand of RNA, they they move it or rearrange it. If it destroys the cell wall they can make enzymes that neutralize it or hide from the antibiotic.
They can trade DNA with other bacteria via conjugation. So if you have 2 bacterium resistant one resistant and one vulnerable, you can soon have 2 resistant ones.
Over-prescription and not finishing a prescription is the main cause.
They can trade DNA with other bacteria via conjugation. So if you have 2 bacterium resistant one resistant and one vulnerable, you can soon have 2 resistant ones.
Over-prescription and not finishing a prescription is the main cause.
This post was edited on 5/26/16 at 7:57 pm
Posted on 5/26/16 at 7:55 pm to Pectus
There is a lot of poorly/incorrectly described things in this thread, but it's a tough topic to talk about (and this is an SEC/LSU sports message board).
Posted on 5/26/16 at 7:56 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
We become immune to antibiotics
Are you a bacteria?
Even an OT lawyer knows better than that.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 7:57 pm to boosiebadazz
To quote Eddie Vedder:
"It's evolution baby!"
Nature adapts readily to manmade constructs
Injudicious / rampant use of antibiotics contributes to this "evolution"
"It's evolution baby!"
Nature adapts readily to manmade constructs
Injudicious / rampant use of antibiotics contributes to this "evolution"
This post was edited on 5/26/16 at 8:03 pm
Posted on 5/26/16 at 7:57 pm to Mung
I'm watching TV, have a drink in one hand, and typing with the other. It was an inarticulate word usage
Posted on 5/26/16 at 7:58 pm to lsunurse
Not to mention farmers pumping their livestock full of antibiotics.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 8:03 pm to Parallax
quote:
here is a lot of poorly/incorrectly described things in this thread, but it's a tough topic to talk about
You are right.
Maybe if one person does their best at answering the OP it would be better.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 8:16 pm to boosiebadazz
PS, cancer biology has similar evolutionary themes...
LINK
LINK
quote:
Cancer progression is more consistent with Lamarckian than Darwinian evolution When viewed as a mitochondrial metabolic disease cancer progres- sion is more in line with the evolutionary theory of Lamarck than with the theory of Darwin (20). Many investigators in the cancer eld have attempted to link the Darwinian theory of evolution to the phe- nomenon of tumor progression (171–174). The attempt to link can- cer progression to Darwinian evolution is based largely on the view that nuclear somatic mutations are drivers of the disease. According to Lamarck’s theory, it is the environment that produces changes in biological structures (175). Through adaptation and differential use, these changes lead to modi cations in the structures. The modi ca- tions of structures would then be passed on to successive genera- tions as acquired traits. Lamarck’s evolutionary synthesis was based on his belief that the degree of use or disuse of biological structures
quote:
shaped evolution along with the inheritance of acquired adaptability. Lamarck’s ideas could also accommodate a dominant role for epi- genetics and horizontal gene transfer as factors that could facilitate tumor progression (176,177). In addition to nuclear epigenetic events involving acetylation and phosphorylations, mitochondria are also recognized as a powerful extra nuclear epigenetic system (159,178– 180). Other epigenetic phenomena such as cytomegalovirus infection, cell fusion and horizontal gene transfer can also contribute to cancer progression and metastasis (147,159,181–184). Considering the dynamic behavior of mitochondria involving regular fusions and ssions, abnormalities in mitochondrial struc- ture can be rapidly disseminated throughout the cellular mitochon- drial network and passed along to daughter cells somatically, through cytoplasmic inheritance (17,185). The capacity for mitochondrial res- piratory function becomes progressively less with each cell division as adaptability to substrate level phosphorylation increases (Figure 3). The somatic progression of cancer would therefore embody the con- cept of the somatic inheritance of an acquired trait. The acquired trait in this case is alteration to mitochondrial structure. The most malig- nant cancer cells would sustain the near-complete replacement of their respiration with fermentation. This is obvious in those tumor cells with quantitative and qualitative abnormalities in their mitochon- dria (Figure 2). The somatic inheritance of mitochondrial dysfunc- tion in tumor cells could contribute in part to the appearance of a clonal origin, but not directly involving the nuclear genome. However, the degree of nuclear genomic instability can be linked to mitochon- drial dysfunction and both defects together can contribute to tumor progression. A Lamarckian view can account for the non-uniform accumulation of mutations and drug resistance seen during cancer progression. Drug resistance is linked to enhanced lactate fermenta- tion, which is acquired during tumor progression (61,186). It is our opinion that the evolutionary concepts of Lamarck can better explain the phenomena of tumor progression than can the evolutionary con- cepts of Darwin. We encourage further research on this perspective of tumor progression.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 8:21 pm to Parallax
[quote]Practicing primary care and good medicine often don't coincide nowadays because people expect antibiotics. Midlevel providers are some of the worst offenders of this [quote]
Practitioners at all levels and scopes of medicine are guilty of this.
Your condescending attitude (seen in this comment along with all of those in the "thread that will never die") towards mid-levels is undeniable, which I'm sure makes working with you a miserable experience. I bet nurses at all levels loathe working with you.
Btw, that condescending and arrogant attitude is seen by your patients.
Practitioners at all levels and scopes of medicine are guilty of this.
Your condescending attitude (seen in this comment along with all of those in the "thread that will never die") towards mid-levels is undeniable, which I'm sure makes working with you a miserable experience. I bet nurses at all levels loathe working with you.
Btw, that condescending and arrogant attitude is seen by your patients.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 8:27 pm to Mars duMorgue
quote:certainly explains Oregon fans...
I firmly believe that apes descended from man.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 8:30 pm to boosiebadazz
Reap what you sew
You frickers want an antibiotic every time Jr has the sniffles. If you don't get your zpac you are not happy live with the consequences.
You frickers want an antibiotic every time Jr has the sniffles. If you don't get your zpac you are not happy live with the consequences.
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