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Posted on 4/25/16 at 9:19 pm to strohmile126
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This post was edited on 10/2/20 at 8:46 pm
Posted on 4/25/16 at 9:42 pm to FLBooGoTigs1
quote:
There is a series in Netflix that actually goes into what would have happened if Germany and Japan would have won the war. Forgot name of series. Sorry
There was also a good novel called Fatherland, based on the same premise.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:02 pm to strohmile126
If Hitler had released the Panzers that were up in the Pas-de-Calais area, they might have turned the tide. At one point, Gen. Bradley thought that they had lost on Omaha beach. It was going that badly. So it was quite possible that the Germans would have won. D-Day at least.
What would the Allies do? What I think would happen was they would have to build up a second invasion force. Even if Norway or the Med were the target, It would have taken them years. Operation Dragoon was largely unopposed because the victory of Overlord(D-Day). The atomic bomb of course would have been our saving grace. They had intended to use it on Berlin anyway. It just wasn't ready until after V-E day. Probably Leipzig would have been a good target. Then Berlin if necessary.
What would the Allies do? What I think would happen was they would have to build up a second invasion force. Even if Norway or the Med were the target, It would have taken them years. Operation Dragoon was largely unopposed because the victory of Overlord(D-Day). The atomic bomb of course would have been our saving grace. They had intended to use it on Berlin anyway. It just wasn't ready until after V-E day. Probably Leipzig would have been a good target. Then Berlin if necessary.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:07 pm to strohmile126
Well, it would have probably taken a good year or maybe more before the western allies were ready to launch another invasion across the channel. But, I doubt they even try it again, at least not in northern France.
First, look at what was happening in the Eastern Front in June 1944. The Soviets launched an offensive (Operation Bagration) which totally destroyed an entire German Army Group. Had the D-Day landings failed while the Soviets had such a huge success, Churchill would have once again pushed for his "soft underbelly" strategy. Basically, everything the Allies had in England would be rushed to the Med and used in the push up the boot of Italy and maybe even a seaborne invasion along the Dalmation Coast followed by an offensive up the Balkans in order to "shake hands with the Russians as Far East as possible".
First, look at what was happening in the Eastern Front in June 1944. The Soviets launched an offensive (Operation Bagration) which totally destroyed an entire German Army Group. Had the D-Day landings failed while the Soviets had such a huge success, Churchill would have once again pushed for his "soft underbelly" strategy. Basically, everything the Allies had in England would be rushed to the Med and used in the push up the boot of Italy and maybe even a seaborne invasion along the Dalmation Coast followed by an offensive up the Balkans in order to "shake hands with the Russians as Far East as possible".
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:10 pm to NavyLSUAlum
quote:
If Hitler had released the Panzers that were up in the Pas-de-Calais area,
Was this because of Patton's "ghost army"?
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:13 pm to HeadChange
Yes, they were convinced Patton would invade the Pas-de-Calais and that D-Day was a feint.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:19 pm to HeadChange
quote:
Was this because of Patton's "ghost army"?
To a large extent, yes. The ghost "1st Army Group" was a huge success at fooling the Germans. If course it helped that it was stationed at where you'd expect a cross channel invasion to come from.
And along with this was the fact the British had captured and turned virtually every German spy in the British Isles. The Germans were fed a steady stream of misinformation that always pointed at D-Day being aimed at Pas-de-Calais. They had no idea this information they were getting was exactly what the Allies wanted them to think.
There was also an incident where the Allies dressed up a dead corpse in an officers uniform and had him wash up on the shore of Spain. They'd stashed on this body a complete set of fake documents all pointing to an invasion aimed at Pas-de-Calais. The allies knew this information would be passed by the Spanish to the Germans, which of course it was.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:24 pm to NavyLSUAlum
quote:
The atomic bomb of course would have been our saving grace. They had intended to use it on Berlin anyway. It just wasn't ready until after V-E day. Probably Leipzig would have been a good target. Then Berlin if necessary.
I can't imagine a scenario of the US dropping an atomic bomb on Germany without Germany using one first. We used them on the Japs because they didn't look like us and we had no historical connection to that part of the world.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:24 pm to Darth_Vader
If D Day fails the Reich would have still been obliterated.
Russia from the East and the Americans from the South would have done the job eventually.
Would France been part of the Iron Curtain initially? Probably.
Ww3 begins as Britian and America would have launched an operation to rid Europe of communism and the continent would've been a wasteland as nuclear warfare would have been on. I think the Russians would've hit America with nukes also.
Russia from the East and the Americans from the South would have done the job eventually.
Would France been part of the Iron Curtain initially? Probably.
Ww3 begins as Britian and America would have launched an operation to rid Europe of communism and the continent would've been a wasteland as nuclear warfare would have been on. I think the Russians would've hit America with nukes also.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:27 pm to The Boat
The reason they dropped the bomb on Japan was that they were purposely stalling and being deceitful about negotiating. They were warned and then given time to comply.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:31 pm to rantfan
Just means Russia would have had all of Germany not half of it.
We see history through the lens of America...the real fight for Germany was on the eastern front that's where all their best units were sent.
We see history through the lens of America...the real fight for Germany was on the eastern front that's where all their best units were sent.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:38 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:That was Operation Mincemeat, but it wasn't about the D-Day invasion, it was for the invasion of Sicily. They used it to convince the Germans that the Allies would invade Greece in 1943, and not Italy. There's a good Stuff You Should Know podcast about it.
There was also an incident where the Allies dressed up a dead corpse in an officers uniform and had him wash up on the shore of Spain. They'd stashed on this body a complete set of fake documents all pointing to an invasion aimed at Pas-de-Calais. The allies knew this information would be passed by the Spanish to the Germans, which of course it was.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:39 pm to The Boat
quote:
I can't imagine a scenario of the US dropping an atomic bomb on Germany without Germany using one first. We used them on the Japs because they didn't look like us and we had no historical connection to that part of the world
*sigh*
Please don't buy into the liberal propaganda. The only reason we didn't drop the A bomb on Germany was the Germans surrendered before the bomb was ready. Period. If anyone tries to claim we wouldn't have, then just look at the massive bombing campaign we'd been carrying out against Germany. Look at cities like Dresden and Hamburg which we helped firebomb. Look at Berlin which our bombers had reduced to blasted out rubble months before the first Soviet soldier ever made it halfway up the Seelow Heights. So don't think for a moment we'd have held back an A Bomb against Germany because they were white.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:46 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Please don't buy into the liberal propaganda.
Too late, I think. Most people nowadays get their uninformed opinions from the media.
The media says we A-bombed them due to racism. Never mind the fact that the Japanese earned every bit of what we gave them and more.
The liberal media don't publicize the Bataan Death March or the Rape of Nanking, but they will gladly tell you we dropped the A bomb on the helpless yellow man due to racism.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:46 pm to Darth_Vader
I think the more interesting question is what happens to Spain if DDay fails. I think they go into Spain to take away a buffer and try to pincher from Spain and Italy.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:50 pm to The Boat
Think about this. Who is reviled more, Hitler or Hirohito. I'm sure most Americans wouldn't even know Hirohito was Japan's Emperor. We were committed to a Europe first strategy. After a D-Day disaster, like what we are discussing, I really believe we would have nuked Germany. They were already contemplating that very scenario when V-E day happened and it was no longer necessary.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:51 pm to LongueCarabine
quote:
Too late, I think. Most people nowadays get their uninformed opinions from the media.
The media says we A-bombed them due to racism. Never mind the fact that the Japanese earned every bit of what we gave them and more.
The liberal media don't publicize the Bataan Death March or the Rape of Nanking, but they will gladly tell you we dropped the A bomb on the helpless yellow man due to racism.
This sort of historic revisionism and distortion really pisses me off. And the issue of why we dropped the bomb on Japan is a prime example. Nevermind the fact that we'd been bombing every German city we could reach day after day since 1942. That wasn't racist while bombing Japan was somehow. That's liberal logic for you in a nutshell.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:51 pm to NavyLSUAlum
Tojo was the mastermind of Japan IMO he was a despicable man. He did things that make Sadaam, Hitler, and Arafat blush.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 10:55 pm to Darth_Vader
To your point of liberal media. Curtis LeMay is treated as a war criminal by some media "experts". While I don't agree with all he did, I understand it.
LeMay and Shermann are the same yet one is revered by history but the other is criticized.
LeMay and Shermann are the same yet one is revered by history but the other is criticized.
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