re: Can We Be Honest Regarding LSU & Alabama?

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He's not crying, he provided a pretty thorough case for why your assertion that LSU is far and away the better team than all but one team in the SEC is misguided.

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Well right off the bat your post is off base, because at no point did I insinuate that LSU is "far and away" better than other SEC teams. In fact, I asked "which team would you rather be a fan of." By my count, one person said they'd rather Florida's situation over LSU's. inadaze simply posted arbitrary bullshite to bolster other team's cases while diminishing LSU's which is disingenuous at best. He wouldn't actually choose Auburn, Mississippi State, Tennessee or Missouri over LSU; he's just being a stupid devil's advocate.

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It's very transparent to a neutral observer that LSU has an embarrassment of riches that 95% of current or aspiring head coaches would kill for. Embedded in the ethos of being a fan is the idea that maybe you can have some pretty high expectations, anyway. But having these types of expectations, as high as they may be, is something that is supported by a lot of logic that is well doumented. It's not surprising that some fans who know what this program is capable of are frustrated by routinely poor management and underperformance given the advantages and compensation Miles has enjoyed since he stepped foot on campus.

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You can be disappointed in LSU's performance while still realizing that we have a lot, as fans, to be thankful for. That's why I compared us to the other SEC schools. It's not like LSU's talent and resources are so far beyond Georgia and Florida that we are entitled to some higher level of success.

Miles is not perfect, and he has absolutely cost us wins before. He's also created a very dynamic, sustained program that has achieved more success than anyone not named Alabama in the toughest conference. My question is, who would you replace him with? There's only a handful of truly elite coaches in the country, and they are all currently employed. Who are we stealing away that's going to take us to the promised-er land?

Accept the loss and be happy that Bama is better than all other teams not just LSU. I bet next year we will save our secret plays that we only run in practice until the Bama game. That will give us the edge. Lf7 smash behind the line of scrimmage will be the game plan for the first half and we will pound them until they are worn down in the second half. Our special teams edge is by letting Bama run like run wild and unblocked on kick offs. If Guice lives then he has the chest.

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Well right off the bat your post is off base, because at no point did I insinuate that LSU is "far and away" better than other SEC teams. In fact, I asked "which team would you rather be a fan of." By my count, one person said they'd rather Florida's situation over LSU's. inadaze simply posted arbitrary bullshite to bolster other team's cases while diminishing LSU's which is disingenuous at best. He wouldn't actually choose Auburn, Mississippi State, Tennessee or Missouri over LSU; he's just being a stupid devil's advocate.

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Of course he wouldn't. That's blasphemy for any SEC fan. Maybe it was unfair to say you claimed we are "far and away" better, but let's not act like your OP isn't some ridiculous exercise. It's as if any upvotes or geaux tigers signs you receive are a referendum on being a true fan. Why should we be comparing ourselves to anyone on that list? I would argue that our almost unrivaled
recruiting advantages and high amount of money should warrant an expectation that we are a Top team. That's the baseline. Top teams don't get owned. Let's say hypothetically that UF plays Bama every year instead of us and they still have Meyer as a coach. Does Meyer let that shite happen?

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You can be disappointed in LSU's performance while still realizing that we have a lot, as fans, to be thankful for. That's why I compared us to the other SEC schools. It's not like LSU's talent and resources are so far beyond Georgia and Florida that we are entitled to some higher level of success.

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I agree that we have a lot to be thankful for. I don't think that it's because of Miles, although he should be commended for some level of consistency. And you keep throwing around the word "entitled", which has a connotation that is unfair IMO. I view sports as a hobby, and nothing more than that. It's frustrating to see what I view to be underperformance given resources. Losing to Bama every year kind of sucks and I know we can do better.

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Miles is not perfect, and he has absolutely cost us wins before. He's also created a very dynamic, sustained program that has achieved more success than anyone not named Alabama in the toughest conference. My question is, who would you replace him with? There's only a handful of truly elite coaches in the country, and they are all currently employed. Who are we stealing away that's going to take us to the promised-er land?

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Miles didn't create anything. The brand and talent was already here when he got here. What he needed to do was recruit at a decent level and hire good assistants, which he's generally done well in.

No one's saying that he's a flat-out awful coach, and no one's saying he should be fired (that's the rub). Just probably not elite, and it's frustrating to see what happened Saturday night.

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AlexLSU

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The expectation/standard level point applies to people in general, in all walks of life. It was a general point that applies specifically to what we're talking about with LSU and Alabama. It applies to players, coaches, administration, anyone with an outlook/perspective on the situation.

In your OP, you're talking about how people "should" think about LSU-Alabama games. I find it annoying that you used the word should, but I'm simply saying that people are different. There are a number of people who will not go along with that complacent attitude.

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If you can say, "AlexLSU, I would rather be a fan of program X because Y," then I'll take your thoughts into consideration.

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AlexLSU, I'm not a "fan" like that, and my post wasn't meant to be read that way. I have players and coaches that I like and follow, but I'm not a fan the way that many people on this board are fans. I've liked LSU from a very early age, but there are other teams I like as well.

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Auburn is on the downswing

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We'll see. They obviously misevaluated their QB situation this year, but I think Malzahn is a good coach (they have run the ball much better against Alabama than LSU has in recent years).

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2007 is another arbitrary time frame to make your case

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What case am I making, Alex? I simply gave you the record. Yes, it is somewhat arbitrary. I used that year because that's the year they beat then-#1 LSU in Baton Rouge -- one example of why it doesn't make sense to call them "underachievers". That was the context of the ignorant post I was responding to. I think it's important to read with context.

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We're 6-4 against in Miles tenure, or 1-1 since Bielema arrived.

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Very similar records to the since-2007 record anyway.

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We've been a better team since both Les has been here and Beliema has been there.

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More talented? Absolutely.

Better? Not head-to-head.

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You are right that underachiever was a poor choice of word.

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Yes, it was.

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Arkansas is more irrelevant

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Not when it comes to beating LSU.

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If he's done a "good job," then why just the last three years?

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For a number of reasons. Those are the most recent three years, for one. Also, MSU was not in good shape when he got there, and he has had to do a lot of rebuilding. The state of Mississippi has potential in terms of recruiting talent, but it's not on par with Louisiana, and you have Ole Miss to compete with in recruiting.

In the seven years he has been with MSU, they are 53-33. The prior 7 years, MSU was 26-57. Context.

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Ole Miss has lost two this year, three last year and five the year before. That's 12-10, LSU is 13-8.

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You're right. I was a game off. I had quite a few records jotted down on some paper, I must've got them mixed up. Honest mistake.

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No we're throwing in total records!

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Yes, those are the total records since SEC expansion (and since Sumlin has been with A&M).

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But you'd trade LSU's situation for A&M, correct?

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I think Sumlin is a better coach than Miles. But, I also think LSU is the better overall situation right now, although, A&M is closing that gap. Will that lead to A&M surpassing LSU as a football program? Who knows?

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Why 2012?

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SEC expansion.

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I guess their record in 2012 has bearing on their program currently being in disarray somehow?

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2012 is a non-arbitrary time frame because that is when the SEC expanded. Do you want to be more specific about what you mean when you say that Georgia is in "disarray"?

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Since Miles has been at LSU

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This is another reason for using different time frames. From the perspective of other programs, this is just as arbitrary. To be more fair, it makes sense to use time frames from when other coaches entered the league as well, and/or from 2012 because that year represents the beginning of the expansion of the league into its current alignment.

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So even when you bend the time frame for South Carolina, we still have an advantage?

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I've already explained this.

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Only a moron (you) would argue otherwise.

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Nice insult, but I'm not arguing that.

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so what was the point?

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I mentioned it in the post, and I explained it to another poster. It was just a counter to your negative portrayal. I wasn't playing your "fan trade" game.

Dandan, true, however, even great teams will struggle occassionally. And every team is beatable! However, Alabama is in a league of it's own, like it or not.

LSU will have it's occassional victory against the Tide, but BAMA will for the foreseeable future hold it's own destiny.

A great statement Cliff. Thank you. Your message was honest and also eye-opening.

The only way to beat bama is with a great QB and great WRs and a front four that averages about 320

Saban >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Miles

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Ours our all coaching related 

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That is absolutely wrong. Yes. We got out-coached, but when a team beats you at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball you simply can't execute any scheme.

Our offensive line was getting pushed into the backfield on every single play. It was bad in the first half then it was a downhill slide from there on out.