re: It's time to take a step back and remember some real American Heroes

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It's cut and dried: they fought for chattel slavery.

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I respectfully disagree. To counter that, what was the North fighting for before the Emancipation Proclamation was issued?

And why didn't the EP free any slaves in the United States, only those in occupied areas of the Confederate States?

Obviously, they weren't fighting to end slavery, now were they?

(See - this was WAS about slavery to some and NOT about slavery to others - it is very, very complex, betrayed by this simplistic notion that a shite ton of dirt poor southern farm boys were fighting/dying to preserve slaves when many of them had never seen one, much less owned one.)

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Mississippi's Secession Declaration:

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That's not their secession declaration. That's there declaration of causes of secession, which is like the Congressional record. It's not a legal document, and it's only one state.

I really wish this meme would stop.

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No I understood his point completely. But you missed mine clearly.

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If you say so.

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since if we strike "slavery" from the list, there is no Civil War.

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Are you omnipresent too?

(no message)

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How noble of them

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As bad as the north was, no matter what, the south was worse, as their issue was the continuation of slavery. Is anybody here seriously arguing that the continuation of chattel slavery wasn't AT THE VERY LEAST a big consideration for the south?

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the south was fighting to keep it's precious chattel slavery in place.

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Your point? If I show you one (or more) that do not mention slavery, will that destroy your premise?

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Why take it from me? Let's go straight to the mouth of Alexander Stephens:

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But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other though last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics. Their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails. I recollect once of having heard a gentleman from one of the northern States, of great power and ability, announce in the House of Representatives, with imposing effect, that we of the South would be compelled, ultimately, to yield upon this subject of slavery, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics, as it was in physics or mechanics. That the principle would ultimately prevail. That we, in maintaining slavery as it exists with us, were warring against a principle, a principle founded in nature, the principle of the equality of men. The reply I made to him was, that upon his own grounds, we should, ultimately, succeed, and that he and his associates, in this crusade against our institutions, would ultimately fail. The truth announced, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics as it was in physics and mechanics, I admitted; but told him that it was he, and those acting with him, who were warring against a principle. They were attempting to make things equal which the Creator had made unequal.

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