- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
2
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:28 am to ShortyRob
(no message)
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 9:29 am
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:47 am to La Place Mike
quote:
Do you feel the same outrage about Obama's drone war?
Yes? I know that doesn't fit with your narrative, but Obama is a souped up extension of Bush.....
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:54 am to ShortyRob
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:54 am to Jake88
quote:
And about not being the good guys, don't be such an easily lead nave. Listen to the navy seal's story about the raid on Bin Laden's compound and how, in the stress of that mission the Americans made sure to place the children encountered during the raid with females also in the compound.
Listen fricktard, either read my post or dont respond. I didn't say that the US isnt the good guys. I asked at what point we stop being the good guys as it pertains to torturing innocent people. If our error rate was 90% I do not think we'd be the good guys if every 9 out of 10 people we tortured was innocent.
IT sucks that you can't have a multifaceted discussion on a complex topic without accusing someone of being "easily lead". I should call you a simpleton now right?
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:59 am to AUbused
quote:
I should call you a simpleton now right
Nah, you already called me a fricktard.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:03 am to Jake88
So we're good! 
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:05 am to AUbused
Yes, but we prefer to be called retards.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 10:06 am
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:05 am to AUbused
quote:
At what point do we stop being the good guys? Does anyone care?
You do realize the shite we do and wring hands about is practically considered "regular confinement" in places around the globe, yes?
A 20% error rate that exposes some folks picked up in shady spots to cold water baths and standing up for a while doesn't make me any less confident that America does things largely the right way in terms of human rights.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:10 am to Pettifogger
quote:
You do realize the shite we do and wring hands about is practically considered "regular confinement" in places around the globe, yes?
I am aware of this. Though I think many would argue that holding oneself to simply being better than a bunch of shitty countries isn't exactly striving for excellence.......or that being the least bad guy doesnt make one "good".
A friend and I were discussing this last night and it seems to me that its analogous to the liberty vs security argument. This is morality vs security. In both cases it seems you can give up one to attain the other....but at what cost is the question.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:13 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
When we start ACTUALLY torturing people - like pulling out fingernails, flaying, boiling alive, breaking bones, burning, etc.
I've been told by someone who would definitely know that 1st world nations are too sophisticated to use physical torture, and would use drugs instead. Maybe he didn't know what he was talking about.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:16 am to AUbused
quote:
I am aware of this. Though I think many would argue that holding oneself to simply being better than a bunch of shitty countries isn't exactly striving for excellence.......or that being the least bad guy doesnt make one "good".
I understand, but that's not what we're dealing with. There is a huge gulf between our version of extremely limited and relatively tame "torture" and the other countries who practice torture. We're not in the same hemisphere.
quote:
A friend and I were discussing this last night and it seems to me that its analogous to the liberty vs security argument. This is morality vs security. In both cases it seems you can give up one to attain the other....but at what cost is the question.
And this is a valid discussion for the country to have. But, the way it is being handled all but eliminates that opportunity. Having the US Senate throw the CIA under the bus is infuriating and should piss off every American. We'll also need to have a discussion about how much transparency we're going to demand. I firmly believe America wants external intelligence/security that will take whatever action is necessary to defend America against significant threats. But it doesn't want to know about it, because we have to deal with theatrical displays like what we're seeing in congress and the media.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:36 am to son of arlo
quote:
I've been told by someone who would definitely know that 1st world nations are too sophisticated to use physical torture, and would use drugs instead.
While this is, to a certain extent true, the doctors get pretty involved, then, just as they do with waterboarding. That's the problem with being a civilized person trying to be a barbarain - your self-imposed rules get in the way and the doctors can call the whole thing off if the risk gets too high.
quote:
Maybe he didn't know what he was talking about.
Well, we don't really use actual, physical torture, because the results are generally unreliable. You get confessions for things they didn't do and so forth.
That is why waterboarding straddles the line - it's vicerally very distasteful to watch, and excruciating to experience, although it results in no permanent harm - it is the fear, reinforced by physical sensation that is powerful. However, if a hardened source will not break through standard techniques, it can be used to get the conversation going. Talking is better than being waterboarded - I assume most people would agree with that.
But, the intelligence gathered still has to be evaluated, weighed and verified.
Subjects say all kinds of crazy stuff on the direct approach, too, just on the apprehension of things getting rougher down the line.
It's in interesting business, and not always life-affirming.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:47 am to AUbused
Wonder how many innocents have been killed by Drones because they were in close proximity to the targeted terrorists.
Wonder how many terrorists, that would have been targeted using Obama's methods, have been released from Guantanamo.
Wonder how many terrorists, that would have been targeted using Obama's methods, have been released from Guantanamo.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:58 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
While this is, to a certain extent true, the doctors get pretty involved, then, just as they do with waterboarding. That's the problem with being a civilized person trying to be a barbarain - your self-imposed rules get in the way and the doctors can call the whole thing off if the risk gets too high.
I was talking about putting a detainee on a sleep deprivation/heroin withdrawal rollercoaster. Maybe crack would be better, or meth. I'm not an expert.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:06 am to son of arlo
quote:
I was talking about putting a detainee on a sleep deprivation/heroin withdrawal rollercoaster.
Heroin would be too strong and unpredictable. They use various strengths of ethanol, along with a variety of benzos, the old standby, scopolamine, perhaps even morphine, if they're going to go that route.
And addiction/withdrawal would likely take too long. You can alternate the above, with periods of sleep deprivation, light confusion, noise/silence, to achieve a psychologically receptive state.
This is one of the reasons that will trigger hardened subjects to hunger strike - for fear their food is being spiked.
Of course, a lot of this is injected as part of their "medical treatment" - really, the only question is "How long will this take?" - as the captors will ultimately win on the "if" - part. Resistance techniques are only effective in delaying the inevitiable, in the hopes your comrades will have time to take remedial measures to minimize the damage when (not if) you break.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:30 am to AUbused
quote:What's my narrative? Just wanted to know if you were a hypocrite?
Yes? I know that doesn't fit with your narrative,
Page 2 of 2
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News