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Started By
Message
re: No Vacation Nation
Posted on 11/9/14 at 4:33 pm to Tiguar
Posted on 11/9/14 at 4:33 pm to Tiguar
quote:
I'm just saying I think its better, for the nation and society as a whole, for people to get more time off.
Then they can earn it in a free market. Way back in 1967 I worked for a radio station. Our engineer worked ten hours a week, mostly in the middle of the night when the transmitter needed adjusting.
He had a decent house with a small swimming pool. In today's dollars he made about 30K a year. But that's good money for ten hours a week. It's called FREEDOM.
1
Posted on 11/9/14 at 4:33 pm to Tiguar
quote:The problem with high underemployment is it renders vacation vs higher income discussions moot.
no, my premise is that I think it's better as a society for everyone to get a good amount of time off. right now, I only see those able to bargain receiving the time off
Posted on 11/9/14 at 4:36 pm to Zach
and I am questioning if that is actually the best possible scenario.
there is no doubt that there are ways in our system for those with outstanding work-ethic to put themselves in very good positions. I don't know if there isn't a way to allow those with "a want" to aim higher the opportunity to do so while also maintaining a happy way of life for others.
Is there a way to have your cake and eat it too? other countries citizens look at us and say "How sad". we look at them and say the same thing.
maybe someone is wrong.
there is no doubt that there are ways in our system for those with outstanding work-ethic to put themselves in very good positions. I don't know if there isn't a way to allow those with "a want" to aim higher the opportunity to do so while also maintaining a happy way of life for others.
Is there a way to have your cake and eat it too? other countries citizens look at us and say "How sad". we look at them and say the same thing.
maybe someone is wrong.
This post was edited on 11/9/14 at 4:37 pm
Posted on 11/9/14 at 4:40 pm to Tiguar
quote:
m trying to open my mind to the possibility my free-market attitude could be wrong and maybe it can't fix everything- this is a road block I'm trying to work through to prove my philosophy is the right one.
The free market doesn't "fix" anything. It produces outcomes that are reflective of the assimilation of infinite individual choices. It's not right or wrong, it passes no judgments.
If you want outcomes that diverge from this assimilation of individual choices, you must coerce people and remove their choice. You can decide for yourself if you believe that is the lesser of two evils. I do not believe that it is.
This post was edited on 11/9/14 at 4:46 pm
Posted on 11/9/14 at 4:44 pm to Turbeauxdog
quote:
If you want outcomes that diverge from this assimilation of individual choices, you must coerce people and remove their choice.
thats a very good point and sums up why I come back to siding with our system. forced assimilation is no bueno
Posted on 11/9/14 at 4:45 pm to Tiguar
quote:depends solely on the opportunity at hand
maybe someone is wrong.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 4:47 pm to NC_Tigah
systems can create or destroy opportunities though; you can shape what is available to people through policy.
but this is very dangerous thinking and I acknowledge I'm starting to sound like a commie
but this is very dangerous thinking and I acknowledge I'm starting to sound like a commie
Posted on 11/9/14 at 4:52 pm to asurob1
quote:
The US is the only developed nation that treats paid time off as a perk
And we have higher employment and productivity numbers as a result. There are trade-offs.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 5:06 pm to Tiguar
quote:As someone who takes a couple of months off a year, I'd disagree. Not dangerous, as long as it's not mandated.
but this is very dangerous thinking and I acknowledge I'm starting to sound like a commie
Posted on 11/9/14 at 5:07 pm to BigJim
quote:Don't know that one begets the other.
he US is the only developed nation that treats paid time off as a perk
And we have higher employment
Posted on 11/9/14 at 6:03 pm to Tiguar
I think it has to be left up to the companies. The encouragement comes from other companies trying it.
The companies are going to reap the benefits from better workers until the workers start thinking it's a God given right. That's the draw back and the balance.
The companies are going to reap the benefits from better workers until the workers start thinking it's a God given right. That's the draw back and the balance.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 8:46 pm to Zach
quote:
You're out because you're getting your arse whipped.
This post was edited on 11/9/14 at 8:49 pm
Posted on 11/9/14 at 8:52 pm to darkhorse
quote:
I think it has to be left up to the companies. The encouragement comes from other companies trying it.
The companies are going to reap the benefits from better workers until the workers start thinking it's a God given right. That's the draw back and the balance.
Jesus I actually agree with something you said.
I don't think government regulation for this sort of thing is in order.
I think that companies need to recognize the positives of making their workers take time off.
My wife's gig is an example of people being afraid to ask for time off because they get so far behind in their work they spend days if not weeks trying to catch up. A lot of this is because they have 1 employee doing the work of two to maximize profit. Most companies look at employees as assets and if they burn out and get less productive then out the door, hire that newer younger person and over work them.
At any rate...other then Zach acting like his usual idiot self...good thread...
Posted on 11/9/14 at 9:43 pm to asurob1
Technology giveth and technology taketh away.
We've never had the European style six weeks in the summer off but we really became the No Vacation Nation once technology made it easier to always be connected.
On the other hand, I get to work from home a whole lot and that's a quality of life chit that was unavailable to me as recently as 10 years ago and is worth a lot more than an extra week off.
And the truth is, the lack of true off time ramps up in accordance with your responsibilities. Wal Mart has relatively generous vacation policies (or at least they did) for their stock crew and they're off the clock when they're off the clock.
Trade offs.
We've never had the European style six weeks in the summer off but we really became the No Vacation Nation once technology made it easier to always be connected.
On the other hand, I get to work from home a whole lot and that's a quality of life chit that was unavailable to me as recently as 10 years ago and is worth a lot more than an extra week off.
And the truth is, the lack of true off time ramps up in accordance with your responsibilities. Wal Mart has relatively generous vacation policies (or at least they did) for their stock crew and they're off the clock when they're off the clock.
Trade offs.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 9:46 pm to damnedoldtigah
quote:
I had a job early in my career where the CEO preached that if you wanted to be away from your job for a couple of weeks, he didn't need you. Little bastard always took two weeks for himself.
Choice is a powerful thing. I moved on to an org with a decent salary, decent benefits and retirement, and yes, decent vacation with the amount of vacation days being dependent upon seniority.
Sounds like your early job and current job have some similarities when it comes to time off and who should get more of it.
This post was edited on 11/9/14 at 9:47 pm
Posted on 11/9/14 at 9:54 pm to asurob1
I get 5 weeks a year. Just went to 9/80 work schedule. Like getting 26 more days.
Not sure how we are the no vacation nation.
After working in France for 3 years, while there is a lot to like about their lifestyle, overall the country doesn't function that well - high unemployment, someone is always on strike, worse segregation and discrimination than in the US, gas cost $6/gal, and the highway costs $100 in tolls to drive from the Mediterranean to Paris (7 hours). I met many a Frenchman who wanted to move to the US.
But the vacations days are plentiful and they all take them at the same time so half the country is shut down in August.
Not sure how we are the no vacation nation.
After working in France for 3 years, while there is a lot to like about their lifestyle, overall the country doesn't function that well - high unemployment, someone is always on strike, worse segregation and discrimination than in the US, gas cost $6/gal, and the highway costs $100 in tolls to drive from the Mediterranean to Paris (7 hours). I met many a Frenchman who wanted to move to the US.
But the vacations days are plentiful and they all take them at the same time so half the country is shut down in August.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 11:25 pm to redandright
It's cliche but it really is a race to the bottom, in many ways.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 11:27 pm to ChEgrad
Worth noting that in that bullshite happiness index from the UN I mentioned earlier, France is one of the first world countries listed below us.
This post was edited on 11/9/14 at 11:28 pm
Posted on 11/10/14 at 12:24 am to Tiguar
quote:My problem with articles like this is that they assume, or rather can't even imagine, that benefits like time off, maternity leave, etc are possible without government decree.
No Vacation Nation
While it is true that many low wage workers and lower middle folks do not enjoy benefits, let us not forget that a majority of people DO receive the things that in Europe are government mandated.
The one area that I honestly am on the fence over is the low wage folks, though. They are the driving force behind many of these initiatives, because they are the only ones that would actually feel an impact. It is the low wage folks that do not get health benefits from the company. It is low wage folks that do not get time off, maternity leave, etc.
And I don't think there is a libertarian solution to this shite condition the low wage person has to live through.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 1:01 am to asurob1
(no message)
This post was edited on 12/23/14 at 11:41 pm
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