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Message
Ok, walk me through IRS email situation...
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:39 am
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:39 am
Ok, I haven't been able to fully keep up on the IRS stuff over the past few days. So maybe there are a few facts I am missing, so let me know if I am missing something that would explain this.
Ok... Lerner's emails are gone because her personal hard drive crashed, and has been recycled.
Lets forget the fact that emails should have been stored on an email server.
Lets just say you buy this story. Ok cool.
What about the other 6 people? Lerner's personal hard drive crashing magically caused 6 other people's email communications to be lost as well? Or is the IRS saying all 7 people's hard drives failed and were recycled?
What am I missing here? Or is this really just that blatant of a lie??
Ok... Lerner's emails are gone because her personal hard drive crashed, and has been recycled.
Lets forget the fact that emails should have been stored on an email server.
Lets just say you buy this story. Ok cool.
What about the other 6 people? Lerner's personal hard drive crashing magically caused 6 other people's email communications to be lost as well? Or is the IRS saying all 7 people's hard drives failed and were recycled?
What am I missing here? Or is this really just that blatant of a lie??
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:40 am to LSUnation78
Phony Faux News/Koch Brothers scandal.
Not a smidgeon of corruption.
No evidence, no crime.
Please drive through.
Not a smidgeon of corruption.
No evidence, no crime.
Please drive through.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:41 am to LSUnation78
quote:
What am I missing here?
Nothing. You are spot on.
quote:
Or is this really just that blatant of a lie??
Inevitably so.....just needs to be proven.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:43 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Phony Faux News/Koch Brothers scandal.
Not a smidgeon of corruption.
No evidence, no crime.
Please drive through.
Bush's fault
Ann Romney has a horse
Haliburton
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:45 am to LSUnation78
Romney's wife's horse destroyed all the hard drives and servers. Boom, case solved.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:47 am to idlewatcher
quote:
Nothing. You are spot on.
That's what I was afraid of. Good god this is astounding.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:51 am to LSUnation78
quote:
walk me through IRS email situation...
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:58 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Phony Faux News/Koch Brothers scandal.
Not a smidgeon of corruption.
No evidence, no crime.
Please drive through.
You forgot - "Squeaky clean."
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:08 pm to Wolfhound45
Tell you what, if she really did this intentionally, she's not only very smart but a psychic. Here are the emails from 3 years ago when this happened:
7/19/11 Lerner emails Carl Froehlich asking if he can recover lost files on her computer.
7/19/11 Froelich emails Lerner and says they'll ask Diane. "If she can't fix it, nobody can'"
7/20/11 Lerner responds "We can only try, but it may be too late... don't they send them off to hard drive cemetery?"
7/20/11 Email to Lerner.. haven't been able to recover the data. Still trying.
7/20/11 Lerner responds "thanks for the update. I'll keep my fingers crossed"
8/1/11 Email to Lerner: As a last resort, sent your hard drive to CI Forensics
8/5/11 Email to Lerner, the sectors on the hard drive were bad which made your data unrecoverable.
8/6/11 Lerner responds: Thanks for trying. Sometimes stuff happens.
LINK
7/19/11 Lerner emails Carl Froehlich asking if he can recover lost files on her computer.
7/19/11 Froelich emails Lerner and says they'll ask Diane. "If she can't fix it, nobody can'"
7/20/11 Lerner responds "We can only try, but it may be too late... don't they send them off to hard drive cemetery?"
7/20/11 Email to Lerner.. haven't been able to recover the data. Still trying.
7/20/11 Lerner responds "thanks for the update. I'll keep my fingers crossed"
8/1/11 Email to Lerner: As a last resort, sent your hard drive to CI Forensics
8/5/11 Email to Lerner, the sectors on the hard drive were bad which made your data unrecoverable.
8/6/11 Lerner responds: Thanks for trying. Sometimes stuff happens.
LINK
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:13 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:
Tell you what, if she really did this intentionally, she's not only very smart but a psychic. Here are the emails from 3 years ago when this happened:
7/19/11 Lerner emails Carl Froehlich asking if he can recover lost files on her computer.
7/19/11 Froelich emails Lerner and says they'll ask Diane. "If she can't fix it, nobody can'"
7/20/11 Lerner responds "We can only try, but it may be too late... don't they send them off to hard drive cemetery?"
7/20/11 Email to Lerner.. haven't been able to recover the data. Still trying.
7/20/11 Lerner responds "thanks for the update. I'll keep my fingers crossed"
8/1/11 Email to Lerner: As a last resort, sent your hard drive to CI Forensics
8/5/11 Email to Lerner, the sectors on the hard drive were bad which made your data unrecoverable.
8/6/11 Lerner responds: Thanks for trying. Sometimes stuff happens.
...and how can we be sure that these are actually emails that were sent...rather than built after the fact? I mean, your whole premise is that there isn't an email server that can validate this communication, right?
This post was edited on 6/19/14 at 12:14 pm
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:16 pm to Vegas Bengal
Im not an IT guy, but do sectors on a HD normally just go "bad"?
I was under the impression its relatively easy to recover data from a HD short of it being physically destroying.
Still doesn't explain how the 6 other people are magically missing emails from the same time frame?
I was under the impression its relatively easy to recover data from a HD short of it being physically destroying.
Still doesn't explain how the 6 other people are magically missing emails from the same time frame?
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:23 pm to Vegas Bengal
From your link....
So now AT BEST Lerner broke IRS policy by removing and/or not keeping hard copy records of her communications regarding agency business. Clearly stated by IRS policy that emails considered an "official record" of the IRS couldn't be deleted and, in fact, needed to also have a hard copy filed.
quote:
Emails considered an "official record" of the IRS couldn't be deleted and, in fact, needed to also have a hard copy filed. Those emails that constitute an official record are ones that are loosely defined under IRS policy as ones that were "[c]reated or received in the transaction of agency business," "appropriate for preservation as evidence of the government's function or activities," or "valuable because of the information they contain". The letter sent to the senators suggests that it was up to the user to determine what emails met those standards. It's not clear if Lerner had any hard copies of important emails.
So now AT BEST Lerner broke IRS policy by removing and/or not keeping hard copy records of her communications regarding agency business. Clearly stated by IRS policy that emails considered an "official record" of the IRS couldn't be deleted and, in fact, needed to also have a hard copy filed.
This post was edited on 6/19/14 at 12:25 pm
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:26 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:
8/6/11 Lerner responds: Thanks for trying. Sometimes stuff happens to seven computers at the same time.
FIFY
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:29 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:
7/20/72 Rose Mary Woods responds: Thanks for trying. Sometimes stuff happens.
FIFY
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:40 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:
Tell you what, if she really did this intentionally, she's not only very smart but a psychic. Here are the emails from 3 years ago when this happened:
7/19/11 Lerner emails Carl Froehlich asking if he can recover lost files on her computer.
7/19/11 Froelich emails Lerner and says they'll ask Diane. "If she can't fix it, nobody can'"
7/20/11 Lerner responds "We can only try, but it may be too late... don't they send them off to hard drive cemetery?"
7/20/11 Email to Lerner.. haven't been able to recover the data. Still trying.
7/20/11 Lerner responds "thanks for the update. I'll keep my fingers crossed"
8/1/11 Email to Lerner: As a last resort, sent your hard drive to CI Forensics
8/5/11 Email to Lerner, the sectors on the hard drive were bad which made your data unrecoverable.
8/6/11 Lerner responds: Thanks for trying. Sometimes stuff happens.
I'm assuming that the IRS operates like any other big corporation in today's world, at least with respect to how they operate their computer networks.
This type of stuff happens. The hard drive can go bad. However, corporate and government employees have two different ways of storing their data: the local storage, which is the computer's hard drive, and cloud storage, where the data is stored remotely on a secure server. E-mail that is sent to or from the employee is stored on the remote server, although it may also be stored on the employee's hard drive, as well (in case the employee wants to access it offline).
When her hard drive crashed, they probably tried to fix it and couldn't (or it wasn't cost effective). The end solution was that she needed a new hard drive (or new computer). Most likely, she was asking them to fix the hard drive because other items, like pictures and other personal information were on the hard drive and not stored on the network drives. As a general rule, with work computers, you put all your work stuff on the network, and the personal stuff stays on the hard drive. With e-mails, she wouldn't have had a choice, as that is stored on the network servers automatically, where it could be retrieved, if needed.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:41 pm to LSUnation78
quote:
Im not an IT guy, but do sectors on a HD normally just go "bad"?
Not normally, but it does happen every once in a blue moon. From the email chain back and forth with IT, it looks exactly like a conversation I and other IT folks have had on the rare occasion this has happened so for her computer (and hers alone) this corroboration is utterly plausible.
For it happening to 6 others though... there's no way in hell that that sort of things happens to that many folks all at the same time.
Also, I'm still not seeing where attempts have been made to get emails from the DOJ and WH ends that were to/from her.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:42 pm to LSUnation78
The BEST case scenerio for the O Administration is that the IRS is shown to be beyond incompetent, technically impotent, controlled by out of control people who have no regard for following policy, when the policies are hopelessly outdated and irrelevant.
In a nutshell, e-mails were removed from the server due to size limitations, downloaded to the employee's computer, which then crashed, and the hard drive was found to be "irrecovable" and recycled/destroyed, i.e, gotten rid of.
Combine that trail of events with a policy that says "official" e-mail must be printed, with the determination of "official" being made by the person involved in the e-mail.
I think you have two issues here:
1) Did someone outside the IRS tell the IRS to target the groups?
2) Was there a coverup, or was this simply horrible incompetence?
Anyone that has ever dealt with the IRS knows that horrible incompetence is certainly an option?
Did she not print the e-mails because she didn't want a copy of them, or, cause she was too stupid to know she should have?
Did the IRS not try harder to recover the hard drives because they knew there was stuff on there that might have caused issues, or because their crack IT team really thought that if they could not recover it, the data could not be recovered by anyone?
At some point, the GOP needs to turn the attention away from this singluar issue, and instead, focus on a massive, massive rebuild of the IRS.
In a nutshell, e-mails were removed from the server due to size limitations, downloaded to the employee's computer, which then crashed, and the hard drive was found to be "irrecovable" and recycled/destroyed, i.e, gotten rid of.
Combine that trail of events with a policy that says "official" e-mail must be printed, with the determination of "official" being made by the person involved in the e-mail.
I think you have two issues here:
1) Did someone outside the IRS tell the IRS to target the groups?
2) Was there a coverup, or was this simply horrible incompetence?
Anyone that has ever dealt with the IRS knows that horrible incompetence is certainly an option?
Did she not print the e-mails because she didn't want a copy of them, or, cause she was too stupid to know she should have?
Did the IRS not try harder to recover the hard drives because they knew there was stuff on there that might have caused issues, or because their crack IT team really thought that if they could not recover it, the data could not be recovered by anyone?
At some point, the GOP needs to turn the attention away from this singluar issue, and instead, focus on a massive, massive rebuild of the IRS.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:43 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:
Jax-Tiger
Decatur is not looking for the truth. Just finding bits and pieces that support the idea that her email is somehow "innocently" irretrievable. Cannot seem to address how the other six individuals being investigated have had their email become "irretrievable" at the same time.
This post was edited on 6/19/14 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:44 pm to Bard
I am not an IT guy, but the hard drive is a non-issue. The servers are the issue. The hard drive will only contain data that was stored on her computer but never left via email. We need to stop focusing on the hard drive and ask why their servers were not copied, before deleting every 6 months.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:44 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:
I'm assuming that the IRS operates like any other big corporation in today's world, at least with respect to how they operate their computer networks.
Some of the tech the IRS uses woudl cause the Flintstones to laugh.
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