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re: In Crimea, Russia May Have Gotten a Jump on West by Evading U.S. Eavesdropping

Posted on 3/24/14 at 9:41 pm to
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65147 posts
Posted on 3/24/14 at 9:41 pm to
quote:

Exactly! Karma is a bitch


When the first American military serviceman is killed over one of his leaks, I would pay money for you to say this to his/her family.

Posted by Turkey_Creek_Tiger
Member since Dec 2012
12343 posts
Posted on 3/24/14 at 9:44 pm to
Posted by RockyMtnTigerWDE
War Damn Eagle Dad!
Member since Oct 2010
105550 posts
Posted on 3/24/14 at 10:06 pm to
I am sure had Snowden exposed similar info during Bush's tenure Decatur, VOR, and the like would be touting him their hero.
Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
73552 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 6:09 am to
quote:

I see you're continuing to change the subject and refusing to answer my question. Nice. Keep up the good work.
LINK
Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
73552 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 6:10 am to
quote:

I am sure had Snowden exposed similar info during Bush's tenure Decatur, VOR, and the like would be touting him their hero
There is a reason Decatur won't go into the FISA thread.
Posted by los angeles tiger
1,601 miles from Tiger Stadium
Member since Oct 2003
55976 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 7:16 am to
quote:

There is a reason Decatur won't go into the FISA thread.



Yep and don't even bring up the fact that he still believes the bullshite lie that a video caused the Benghazi attacks despite all the warnings by the ambassador beforehand asking for additional security.
Posted by SettleDown
Everywhere
Member since Nov 2013
1333 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 7:18 am to
quote:


When the first American military serviceman is killed over one of his leaks, I would pay money for you to say this to his/her family.

As a former servicemen, I would straight tell them, "your government way stepped over the limits and created the necessity of Snowden. Our governments behavior may have caused your son's death"
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
124668 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 7:47 am to
quote:

quote:

I see you're continuing to change the subject and refusing to answer my question. Nice. Keep up the good work.

Irony being, I had no intent in "changing the subject".
None.
Happy to discuss it.

Blaming Snowden for Crimea requires two or three degrees of separation. It is a problem the OP happily ignores in search of a fallguy. Assigning Snowden primary or even secondary blame for Crimea is weak in this circumstance, even for Decatur. He considers pointing that out as "changing the subject."

Decatur started a thread rationalizing our impotent, disorganized, embarrassing response to Putin. Yet addressing the actual issues underlying that response is deemed "changing the subject."

He started a thread rationalizing outrage against Snowden. Unfortunately that outrage is advanced by proven liars whom an apparently corrupt DOD refuses to even question. Yet addressing those criminal acts, the ones which Snowden's actions were necessary to expose, is deemed "changing the subject."

Decatur started a thread once again expressing concern about Snowden's espionage. I share that concern. But Decatur expresses no such outrage at our security agencies' incompetency which allowed that espionage. Decatur expresses no such outrage at the Obama Administration's incompetency in preventing it, or in disciplining responsible parties once it occurred.

We are talking about unauthorized access to mountains of secret information not just once, but by different perps over multiple occasions. That bit doesn't apparently bother Decatur at all. In his world, it's not about competency. It is about blame. It's Manning's fault. It's Snowden's fault. It is not the fault of those entrusted to keep our secrets secret. Apparently it hasn't occurred to Decatur that if Snowden could could gain access, foreign national spies certainly could . . . and have.

Think about it. After Manning, Snowden still occurred.

It is analogous to a bank being robbed because employees left the vault open and forgot to lock the front door ---- then having the same thing happen again a few months later for the same reason. You'd think heads would roll right and left. Decatur claims raising that issue is "changing the subject."

This post was edited on 3/25/14 at 8:18 am
Posted by a want
I love everybody
Member since Oct 2010
19756 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 9:00 am to
Soldiers don't get to pick and choose which battles they think are just, and government contractors don't get to choose which intelligence should be publicly available. Snowden could have gone through proper channels to voice his concerns, but he was more interested in being a star.

Snowden broke the law: plain and simple. People who hold him up as some sort of hero are fools.
Posted by SettleDown
Everywhere
Member since Nov 2013
1333 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 9:04 am to
quote:

Snowden could have gone through proper channels to voice his concerns,
At least 3 people tried this before him and they were all ruined. The fricking SENATE tried to look into the behavior of our intel agencies and the intel agencies WENT AFTER them!

Describe these "proper channels" for me.
quote:

Snowden broke the law: plain and simple. People who hold him up as some sort of hero are fools.

Even our own history is littered with people who broke unjust law and are celebrated in our history books. Hell, if it weren't for such people, our nation might look a lot different........for the worse.
Posted by a want
I love everybody
Member since Oct 2010
19756 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 9:06 am to
quote:

At least 3 people tried this before him and they were all ruined.

Link?
quote:

Even our own history is littered with people who broke unjust law and are celebrated in our history books. Hell, if it weren't for such people, our nation might look a lot different........for the worse.

Should all government contractors get to decide what should be classified and what shouldn't?
Posted by monsterballads
Make LSU Great Again
Member since Jun 2013
29272 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 9:30 am to
quote:

When the first American military serviceman is killed over one of his leaks, I would pay money for you to say this to his/her family.



so what is it you're advocating? snowden is a whistleblower for a corrupt government.
Posted by monsterballads
Make LSU Great Again
Member since Jun 2013
29272 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 9:31 am to
quote:

I am sure had Snowden exposed similar info during Bush's tenure Decatur, VOR, and the like would be touting him their hero.



he would be a true patriot. dissent is patriotic. or was. up until 2009 at least.
Posted by monsterballads
Make LSU Great Again
Member since Jun 2013
29272 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 9:33 am to
quote:

Snowden broke the law


the founding fathers broke lots of laws as well.
tyranny is tyranny, no matter what side is in charge.
Posted by SettleDown
Everywhere
Member since Nov 2013
1333 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 9:37 am to
quote:

At least 3 people tried this before him and they were all ruined.

Link?


Wow. Really? That shite has been beaten into the ground and you're going to sit in this thread unaware? How the frick can you not be aware of the story of the three guys who preceded Snowden? I mean, I realize CNN hasn't exactly made a deal about it, but shite man. Cmon.

quote:

Should all government contractors get to decide what should be classified and what shouldn't?

Nope. They shouldn't. Alas, in real life, government can take advantage of that fact to do some pretty nasty shite. So, just like many other times in history, occasionally there has to be someone who takes the risk.

And make no mistake. Despite all the whining about Snowden not just begging to go to jail(which NONE of us would do), what he DID give up is something the vast majority of us wouldn't even consider.

shite. I'm not afraid to admit that I doubt I could give up ALL connections to everyone I've ever known even if I happened upon classified info showing that our government was engaged in assassination of opposition Americans on a massive scale. Oh. We all like to pretend we would, but most wouldn't.

In any case, sometimes, government goes too far. It did this time.
Posted by La Place Mike
West Florida Republic
Member since Jan 2004
28906 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 9:37 am to
quote:

To this day I'm still amazed that people admire Obama. The a-hole is a self-aggrandizing prick with delusions of grandeur.
Posted by SettleDown
Everywhere
Member since Nov 2013
1333 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 9:38 am to
A WANT.

Just because I'm bored enough to help you out. Here's one example.

Google is your friend. It aint hard. Get informed.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
124668 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 10:01 am to
quote:

Should all government contractors get to decide what should be classified and what shouldn't?
No.
Let's be clear.
Snowden broke the law.

So did Daniel Ellsberg, though.
Ellsberg is viewed as a hero by some. Is he not?

Currently Snowden is inaccessible.
James Clapper is not.
Should Clapper be charged?
Posted by Decatur
Member since Mar 2007
28719 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 10:16 am to
quote:

Irony being, I had no intent in "changing the subject".
None.
Happy to discuss it.


Great.

I'll repeat the passage here for efficiency's sake.

quote:

U.S. officials are alerting some foreign intelligence services that documents detailing their secret cooperation with the United States have been obtained by former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden, according to government officials.

Snowden, U.S. officials said, took tens of thousands of military intelligence documents, some of which contain sensitive material about collection programs against adversaries such as Iran, Russia and China. Some refer to operations that in some cases involve countries not publicly allied with the United States.

The process of informing officials in capital after capital about the risk of disclosure is delicate. In some cases, one part of the cooperating government may know about the collaboration while others — such as the foreign ministry — may not, the officials said. The documents, if disclosed, could compromise operations, officials said.

The notifications come as the Obama administration is scrambling to placate allies after allegations that the NSA has spied on foreign leaders, including German Chancellor Angela Merkel. The reports have forced the administration to play down operations targeting friends while also attempting to preserve other programs that depend on provisional partners. In either case, trust in the United States may be compromised.

“It is certainly a concern, just as much as the U.S. collection [of information on European allies] being put in the news, if not more, because not only does it mean we have the potential of losing collection, but also of harming relationships,” a congressional aide said.

The Office of the Director of National Intelligence is handling the job of informing the other intelligence services, the officials said. ODNI declined to comment.

In one case, for instance, the files contain information about a program run from a NATO country against Russia that provides valuable intelligence for the U.S. Air Force and Navy, said one U.S. official, who requested anonymity to discuss an ongoing criminal investigation. Snowden faces theft and espionage charges.

“If the Russians knew about it, it wouldn’t be hard for them to take appropriate measures to put a stop to it,” the official said.

Snowden lifted the documents from a top-secret network run by the Defense Intelligence Agency and used by intelligence arms of the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines, according to sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters.

Snowden took 30,000 documents that involve the intelligence work of one of the services, the official said. He gained access to the documents through the Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communications System, or JWICS, for top-secret/sensitive compartmented information, the sources said.

The material in question does not deal with NSA surveillance but primarily with standard intelligence about other countries’ military capabilities, including weapons systems — missiles, ships and jets, the officials say.


How do you justify your hero Edward Snowden stealing all of this an exposing it to all the hostile intelligence services of the world? Why should he not face justice for this?

This has nothing to do with Clapper, Manning or any other distraction you can bring up and it needs no reference to Crimea to be answered.

quote:

Decatur started a thread once again expressing concern about Snowden's espionage. I share that concern.


Concern? Last I checked you were crowning Ed as a hero and wanting to give him amnesty. Has that changed?

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