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Message
Is Moyes really the problem?
Posted on 3/20/14 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 3/20/14 at 10:40 pm
Isn't it always this way? When a legendary coach like a Vince Lombardi or a Bear Bryant or a Sir Alex Ferguson leaves there's simply a void there that nobody can fill. In those situations the team usually finds out very quickly that their players were not as good as they thought they were and a long drought through the wilderness is usually on tap.
ManU is a great brand and won't ever go away but let's face it, the heart of the club is aging with the Ryan Giggs' and the Rio Ferdinand's in the twilight of their careers and Wayne Rooney clearly not the same player he was. Sir Alex saw that the window for this particular group was ending and he rode off into the sunset when the getting was good. Nobody else can do what he could and ManU, while rich, is not Man City or Barca or PSG. It might be a long, long time before the red side of Manchester tastes Premier League glory again.
ManU is a great brand and won't ever go away but let's face it, the heart of the club is aging with the Ryan Giggs' and the Rio Ferdinand's in the twilight of their careers and Wayne Rooney clearly not the same player he was. Sir Alex saw that the window for this particular group was ending and he rode off into the sunset when the getting was good. Nobody else can do what he could and ManU, while rich, is not Man City or Barca or PSG. It might be a long, long time before the red side of Manchester tastes Premier League glory again.
This post was edited on 3/20/14 at 10:42 pm
6
Posted on 3/20/14 at 11:17 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
It might be a long, long time before the red side of Manchester tastes Premier League glory again.
wut
all they need is a couple central defenders and midfielders and they will be right back there
moyes is also terrible in terms of how he creates offensive tactics. every time i watch man u it's just a bunch of aimless crosses
Posted on 3/20/14 at 11:20 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
wut
I don't expect them to remain outside the top 4, but you're grossly underestimating how hard it is to win the league.
quote:
all they need is a couple central defenders and midfielders and they will be right back there
only 4 or 5 players away, eh?
quote:
moyes is also terrible in terms of how he creates offensive tactics. every time i watch man u it's just a bunch of aimless crosses
how do you know it's all on Moyes and not the players? When you have me first head cases like RVP and Rooney and no legendary coach to reign them in should you really be surprised when they go rogue? Doesn't this happen frequently in other sports under similar circumstances?
This post was edited on 3/20/14 at 11:27 pm
Posted on 3/21/14 at 4:48 am to Draconian Sanctions
this whole post wreaks of being jelly
and cleary uninformed
we will have to go on our usual big spending spree we do every 7 or 8 years and will be fine.
and cleary uninformed
we will have to go on our usual big spending spree we do every 7 or 8 years and will be fine.
Posted on 3/21/14 at 4:52 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
but you're grossly underestimating how hard it is to win the league.
#20Times
sorry we are not Newcaslte
quote:
only 4 or 5 players away, eh?
Id rather go on a huge spending spree every 7 to 10 years then take the city approach and buy buy buy every year overhauling our roster. And rather just fill in a hole every year or so.
That and Moyes has some piss poor tactics and only reacts when we are down.
Posted on 3/21/14 at 6:31 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
he rode off into the sunset when the getting was good
This needs to stop. David Moyes has/had a couple hundred million GBP to do whatever he wants with. He has/had the perfect opportunity to make the team his.
Posted on 3/21/14 at 6:39 am to StraightCashHomey21
DS, I do think the question needs to really be examined. Emotionally, many ManU fans will say he's the problem.
But ManU was a side that Fergie willed to win the league last year. There are a lot of older guys who only got a year older and a step slower this year. He pushed all the right buttons, winning 4-3 when needed and generally getting some clutch performances.
I do think this team fell hard with the lack of a Fergie presence. Moyes just doesn't fill that void and it takes time for everything to be figured out. Couple that with some older guys having some bad form, and you've got the season they have.
They'll still have plenty of money to buy some additional talent this summer. I think Moyes will do a pretty good job once it settles down (if they don't fire him first). I do not think he is a mastermind of game by game (or in-game) tactics, but I do think he's a guy that builds a system that works over time - heck look how consistent he was at Everton. They will be Top 4 most years. But I don't think they will have a 25 year stretch like they've just had again (nor would they even if they found a new Fergie).
But ManU was a side that Fergie willed to win the league last year. There are a lot of older guys who only got a year older and a step slower this year. He pushed all the right buttons, winning 4-3 when needed and generally getting some clutch performances.
I do think this team fell hard with the lack of a Fergie presence. Moyes just doesn't fill that void and it takes time for everything to be figured out. Couple that with some older guys having some bad form, and you've got the season they have.
They'll still have plenty of money to buy some additional talent this summer. I think Moyes will do a pretty good job once it settles down (if they don't fire him first). I do not think he is a mastermind of game by game (or in-game) tactics, but I do think he's a guy that builds a system that works over time - heck look how consistent he was at Everton. They will be Top 4 most years. But I don't think they will have a 25 year stretch like they've just had again (nor would they even if they found a new Fergie).
Posted on 3/21/14 at 7:08 am to Draconian Sanctions
Dude put in 81 crosses against bottom of the table Fulham. I'm not fully blaming him for not winning the league, but it's certainly 100% his fault they aren't competing for top four. He's archaic and his refusal to adapt to modern tactics is his undoing. It was his problem at Everton, and now his problem at United.
I told you guys this would happen when his move was announced. David Moyes forever.
I told you guys this would happen when his move was announced. David Moyes forever.
Posted on 3/21/14 at 7:17 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
#20Times
sorry we are not Newcaslte
I knew you'd say something bitchy like this and this mentality is sort of the point of the thread. 13 of those 20 were under probably the best manager of all time. You went 25 years without winning the league before he came around. But keep on thinking you have a divine right to success, it's a great look for you.
Posted on 3/21/14 at 7:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
moyes is also terrible in terms of how he creates offensive tactics. every time i watch man u it's just a bunch of aimless crosses
It also still looks like Rooney and RVP have never played together
Posted on 3/21/14 at 7:38 am to Draconian Sanctions
You probably thought you were posting some kind of novel idea, really proud of yourself eh?
This topic has been exhausted. Moyes bought himself some more time with the Olympiakos win but I don't think he's out of the woods yet.
This topic has been exhausted. Moyes bought himself some more time with the Olympiakos win but I don't think he's out of the woods yet.
Posted on 3/21/14 at 7:46 am to Draconian Sanctions
If anything, this is a testament to how great a game manager Fergie was. This Man U side isn't the most talented, and Moyes wants to install his system. While I think that the best coaches modify their system to fit their talent, not the other way around, I think there is some merit to what Moyes is doing because he wants to build long term.
Posted on 3/21/14 at 7:55 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I knew you'd say something bitchy like this and this mentality is sort of the point of the thread. 13 of those 20 were under probably the best manager of all time. You went 25 years without winning the league before he came around. But keep on thinking you have a divine right to success, it's a great look for you.
Im very aware of my club's history shite we were even in the 2nd division. But those dark days of being shitty and Liverpool winning every year are not going to happen again.
You just sound like a jelly fan from a scummy club that has managers who head butt people and fans who punch horses.
Posted on 3/21/14 at 8:00 am to Sophandros
quote:
I think there is some merit to what Moyes is doing because he wants to build long term.
Except he had a chance to bring players in and brought in Fellaini and Mata.
Posted on 3/21/14 at 8:26 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Im very aware of my club's history shite we were even in the 2nd division. But those dark days of being shitty and Liverpool winning every year are not going to happen again.
I didn't say that. Until the next dominant manager shows up I think we'll see what we're seeing this year, 4 teams all battling it out with one of the major powers "down". And of that group I think it's going to be harder for ManU to push through than a London club or City.
quote:
You just sound like a jelly fan from a scummy club that has managers who head butt people and fans who punch horses.
And you sound like tool who thinks if you're a fan of a team outside the top 4 that means you can't be critical of ManU without being "jealous". Heaven forbid poor little Newcastle fans express an opinion!
This post was edited on 3/21/14 at 8:32 am
Posted on 3/21/14 at 8:29 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I think it's going to be harder for ManU to push through than a London club or City.
that is just absurd
United has every bit the resorces we just choose to not overhaul our roster every year. Only one London club can outspend us if it came down to that. Once City's owner is done with his play toy all hell will break loose. They are already trying to loop hole the FIFA Fair Play rules by adding extra seats that won't be used.
This post was edited on 3/21/14 at 8:32 am
Posted on 3/21/14 at 8:33 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Once City's owner is done with his play toy all hell will break loose.
I won't argue that, but that's just how I see it as of now. City have deeper pockets than anyone else in the EPL and without the allure of playing for Sir Alex I think most top international stars will want to live in London over Manchester.
Posted on 3/21/14 at 8:39 am to Draconian Sanctions
he just needs to learn how to maneuver in the transfer market. he hasn't done a good job as of yet but this summer will be big for him since he has the full summer to try and work things out.
its no longer about making value buys on a limited budget like he thrived off of at everton. now he needs to buy special players with a big budget. they could probably use some type of director of football-esque liasion.
once he figures out the market it's all about being a football genius.
its no longer about making value buys on a limited budget like he thrived off of at everton. now he needs to buy special players with a big budget. they could probably use some type of director of football-esque liasion.
once he figures out the market it's all about being a football genius.
Posted on 3/21/14 at 8:42 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
only 4 or 5 players away, eh?
this isn't swansea we're talking about. if they want to fix the gaps, that's 2 signing periods max
they have already done a lot with the mideifeld anyway, but moyes' tactics just suck. THAT is on moyes
feliani and mata were big moves. i still believe in them...just not in moyes' system. i still have faith in kagawa (under another manager, obviously. moyes hates him)
quote:
When you have me first head cases like RVP and Rooney and no legendary coach to reign them in should you really be surprised when they go rogue?
they aren't the ones going rogue. you'd have to bring up ashley young and valencia as the rogue agents
Posted on 3/21/14 at 8:44 am to Sophandros
quote:
I think there is some merit to what Moyes is doing because he wants to build long term.
the problem is he's building long term...for 1983
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