- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Ukrainian soldier killed in Crimea base; PM says conflict is now military
Posted on 3/18/14 at 1:26 pm to asurob1
Posted on 3/18/14 at 1:26 pm to asurob1
quote:
That is the key difference and the reason why we don't give a rat's arse about Ukraine.
That is an overstatement, but, I get your point.
War between Russia and the West does not seem likely, even if Russian armed forces conquered all of Ukraine.
Ukraine should have joined NATO when they had the chance. Ukraine is now at the mercy of Putin's Russia.
This post was edited on 3/18/14 at 1:27 pm
0
Posted on 3/18/14 at 1:27 pm to Col reb 2011
quote:
Can they not shoot back?
With what? they gave up their army on a promise from the US and Britain. Let this stand as a glaring example that demilitarization is NEVER the answer.
Posted on 3/18/14 at 1:27 pm to tiderider
quote:
George Will: Ukraine under Stalin (not safe for lunch)
Luckily Stalin's dead.
Waffen SS in Ukraine:
...good times.
Posted on 3/18/14 at 1:28 pm to The Baker
quote:
I'm still waiting to hear from the EU, helping with any supplies or rations they need. If they don't think it's worth it I'm sorta' inclined to feel then that it's on them. Unless Russia owning a warm water port is a matter of American security, which I'm not convinced it is.
+1
Posted on 3/18/14 at 1:29 pm to SoulGlo
quote:This is not an accurate statement, fwiw.
Can they not shoot back?
With what? they gave up their army on a promise from the US and Britain.
Posted on 3/18/14 at 1:31 pm to Godfather1
quote:
My worries start when he starts eyeing Latvia. Estonia.
Let me ask you, what happened to the Germans in East Prussia, and why?
Perhaps that's the approach the Baltic states should take regarding Russians on their soil. After all, Russia already set the precedent.
Posted on 3/18/14 at 1:34 pm to Godfather1
quote:
discern an analogy fails.
It's not that I cannot discern your analogy, I just happen to believe that it's a very poor one.
International politics =/= school yard antics.
After all, you're the one who said, "The problem is, we never listened to it. And the world became more complex" I can only imagine you meant more complex than a school yard.
Posted on 3/18/14 at 1:37 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
Team America, world police
Posted on 3/18/14 at 2:09 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
Aren't we all glad that the "greatest generation" was as selfish and self centered?
Posted on 3/18/14 at 2:20 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
After all, you're the one who said, "The problem is, we never listened to it. And the world became more complex" I can only imagine you meant more complex than a school yard.
I did.
You, however, conveniently ignored my point about how a bully is a bully, regardless of the setting.
The scale changes. The mentality doesn't.
Posted on 3/18/14 at 2:31 pm to Gray Tiger
quote:
Aren't we all glad that the "greatest generation" was as selfish and self centered?
Isn't that always the liberal criticism of conservatism - selfishness.
The fact is that Japan attacked us, and when we declared war on Japan for it, Germany declared war on us. It wasn't some treaty that got us involved.
I would rather we had the option of with whom we engage in war rather than these trip wires that automatically engage us in a war without forethought as to whether or not we are fighting the right people.
And sue me for wanting to use the defense forces we pay for for OUR defense, not other people's.
I'm all for sticking up for our friends, as long as they deserve it. But I'm not so sure the government of Ukraine is worthy of our friendship.
Posted on 3/18/14 at 2:33 pm to Godfather1
quote:
You, however, conveniently ignored my point about how a bully is a bully, regardless of the setting.
It wasn't convenient, trust me.
Let me know the next time you see a bully on the playground with a nuclear weapon.
tia
It seems that we saw this same ridiculous rationalization just before we invaded Iraq and fricked that all up. When will you war mongers learn how to pick your battles?
Posted on 3/18/14 at 2:36 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
The fact is that Japan attacked us, and when we declared war on Japan for it, Germany declared war on us. It wasn't some treaty that got us involved.
Germany was actually under no obligation to declare war upon us, since the Axis Pact only called upon them to do so if Japanese were the attacked, not the attacker.
Fact is, Pearl Harbor was just a convenient excuse for Hitler to declare war, since we'd been in a de facto shooting war at sea with Germany for a good part of 1941 anyway.
Posted on 3/18/14 at 2:42 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
Let me know the next time you see a bully on the playground with a nuclear weapon.
Ok, now you're just being willfully obtuse.
There's no discussing any of this with people like you. You won't accept points being made when they're staring you right in the face.
Posted on 3/18/14 at 3:00 pm to Godfather1
quote:
Germany was actually under no obligation to declare war upon us
I never said they were. I was merely pointing out that it wasn't some treaty that WE were obligated under that forced us to declare war on Germany.
quote:
Fact is, Pearl Harbor was just a convenient excuse for Hitler to declare war, since we'd been in a de facto shooting war at sea with Germany for a good part of 1941 anyway.
Fact is that Hitler was just nutz. He didn't need any convenient excuses to declare war on anybody, he just wanted war.
Posted on 3/18/14 at 3:04 pm to Godfather1
quote:
Ok, now you're just being willfully obtuse.
I could say the same for you. Standing up to a bully is one thing, you may get a bloody nose. Standing up to a lunatic with nuclear weapons over some corrupt third party government is something quite different.
quote:
There's no discussing any of this with people like you. You won't accept points being made when they're staring you right in the face.
I'm sorry you can't make more reasonable points besides, "It's just like a bully on the playground" when it is in fact NOTHING like a bully on the playground.
All you have to do to discuss this rationally is drop your stupid analogy and discuss the actual facts.
Posted on 3/18/14 at 5:11 pm to Godfather1
quote:
A bully is a bully, whether in the schoolyard, or on the international stage. The difference is just a matter of scale. The mentality is the same, the principle is the same.
Once you let that bully take your lunch money, he's not going to just stop. He's only going to get bolder. He's going to keep taking your lunch money, until you stop him. Or at least project a reasonable threat to stop him.
I don't give a shite if the bully takes some random kids lunch money. It isn't my business until he tries to take my lunch money, or one of my friends lunch money. In this case think of our friends being NATO countries, and Ukraine being the random kid having his lunch money taken.
You are right, this is cause for concern. But there is no cause for action on our part until Russia starts taking aggressive action against us or other NATO countries.
Now if Russia does try to expand into a NATO country then we make a strong statement and go to war. I don't like that it has to be that way, but we have already gone back on our word to protect Ukraine's borders. We have to stand the frick up and put Russia in their place if this expands to include NATO countries or we might as well dismember NATO if we won't take action. Just my opinion though.
Page 3 of 3
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News