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re: Official French Open Discussion Thread
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:37 pm to TulaneTigerFan
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:37 pm to TulaneTigerFan
quote:
I just saw a post on a different forum saying that it was his 7th time to come back from 2 sets down, not sure where that would rank all time.
Guy from ESPN said that this was including all matches, not just majors.
I bet there are 10 guys who have come back from two sets down more than 7 times.
1
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:40 pm to Bunk Moreland
quote:
Tsonga f'ed up a pretty easy approach at 6-6 in the tiebreak. Going five.
Was there any doubt at all that Djokovic was going to either bagel or breadstick Tsonga in the 5th?
I was sweating bullets during the 4th set tiebreaker because I had money on Djoker. But once he pushed it to 5, I didn't even see the need to follow the rest. The match was effectively over at that point.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:46 pm to bobbyray21
quote:
Guy from ESPN said that this was including all matches, not just majors.
I bet there are 10 guys who have come back from two sets down more than 7 times.
There aren't that many. The only five-set matches nowadays are Davis Cup and Grand Slam matches. The ATP YEC and Masters series finals also used to be determined by best out of five before they got rid of that format a few years ago. Still, that's not a lot of best out of five matches.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:49 pm to bobbyray21
quote:
I disagree. He doesn't lose to Nadal because he is mentally soft. He loses to Nadal because he just can't beat Nadal.
Agree and disagree. Nadal is an extremely tough matchup for Fed, but he's always struggled mentally against Nadal. Some of their classic matches Fed would 2-12 on break point chances whereas Rafa would be 4-5 and that would be the match. I've always though Fed was simply so dominant over the likes of Hewitt/Roddick that his mental weaknesses were never exposed until someone like Rafa came along.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:54 pm to FootballNostradamus
Dangit, I had to leave and missed the Fed & Novak matches. I saw how they both came back and it seems the Tsonga/Novak match is plenty enough worth the watch.
Any clue on when/where these matches can be seen/replayed?
Any clue on when/where these matches can be seen/replayed?
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:55 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:
Fed would 2-12 on break point chances whereas Rafa would be 4-5 and that would be the match.
I wonder how much of this is because Nadal has a big advantage by serving wide as a lefty from the side of the court he would be serving from on break chances? That is a huge advantage for a lefty in those situations. Now granted, you still have to be good enough to place the ball where you need it.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:58 pm to Unbiased Bama Fan
quote:
There aren't that many. The only five-set matches nowadays are Davis Cup and Grand Slam matches. The ATP YEC and Masters series finals also used to be determined by best out of five before they got rid of that format a few years ago. Still, that's not a lot of best out of five matches.
If you can find a list of the most two set down wins in tennis history, you're a better man than I. I looked.
I'd imagine there are ten guys with more.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:58 pm to bobbyray21
quote:
I'd imagine there are ten guys with more.
I would really doubt that.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 2:02 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:
Agree and disagree. Nadal is an extremely tough matchup for Fed, but he's always struggled mentally against Nadal. Some of their classic matches Fed would 2-12 on break point chances whereas Rafa would be 4-5 and that would be the match. I've always though Fed was simply so dominant over the likes of Hewitt/Roddick that his mental weaknesses were never exposed until someone like Rafa came along.
Check out this quote from an article in Grantland by Brian Phillips (a guy who I think is a good writer):
quote:
And this is basically the story of this rivalry, right? That is, one of the fundamental things that everyone seems to sense about these players is that Nadal has limitless tenacity, never gives up, gets stronger as the match progresses, and loves the fight for its own sake, while Federer, for all his sublime talent, can turn confoundingly soft on the rare occasions when the momentum turns against him. Just every now and again, there's a Strange Federer Softness. Sometimes you get the sense that he feels he's proved his point in the early games and expects the rest of the match to fall into line out of courtesy. And if it doesn't, if things don't work out as a logical extension of those first few games, he's taken aback. It's not that he lacks the mental strength to compete, more that he loses his decision-making ability because he's genuinely perplexed. He's like a ship in becalmed waters. Anyway, this third set will be vital for him.
LINK
Posted on 6/5/12 at 2:15 pm to RedHawk
quote:
I would really doubt that.
Neither one of us is going to do the leg work to figure it out, and so I think this one will have to just go unanswered.
But I can't imagine guys like Connors, Lendl, Wilander, Edberg, Agassi, Michael Chang, Lleyton Hewitt, Marat Safin, Kuerten, Courier, Ferrero, Henman, Rafter, etc. etc. wouldn't have found themselves in situations where they had to come back from two sets behind moreso than has Roger Federer. There was s several year period where was so dominant that this never came up. How many times from 2005-2007 did Federer ever find himself two sets down? Very few. The above guys certainly found themselves in such position moreso than Federer.
So it just wouldn't make sense for several others guys to not have more than Fed. Hell, I can picture Hewitt coming back from two sets down in the first round of a major. I'm not sure if it happened, but it wouldnt' surprise me.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 2:23 pm to bobbyray21
quote:
If you can find a list of the most two set down wins in tennis history, you're a better man than I. I looked.
I'd imagine there are ten guys with more.
I actually found a thread about the topic on MTF (Menstennisforums). Only four players have seven or more career victories coming back from two-set deficits.
Most match wins coming back from two-set deficit
Boris Becker 10
Aaron Krickstein 10
Todd Martin 9
Roger Federer 7
Michael Chang, Kevin Curren, Wayne Ferreira, Andy Murray, David Nalbandian, and Lleyton Hewitt all have came back from two-set deficits six times. So it's pretty rare for a player to have more than seven victories from two-set deficits.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 2:35 pm to bobbyray21
quote:
Also, I think Delpo was hurt. He wins the first two 6-3, 7-6; the trainer comes out; he loses the next three 6-2, 6-0, 6-2. That sort of thing only happens to scrubs, and JMDP isn't a scrub by any stretch of the imagination. He had to be injured.
Del Potro said the knee wasn't an issue during the post-match press conference. However, he might just be downplaying the injury because he doesn't want to make excuses for his poor play.
quote:
Q. Just talk about the match. You got off to the great start, played the good tiebreak, and then looks like the knee started hurting, but then in the fifth set it looks like you moved better. Can you just take me through it.
JUAN MARTIN DEL POTRO: No, I think anyways I play a great match, even the third and fourth set. He start to play much better than in the beginning of the match and I feel his ball more in the baseline. He put me to run a lot in the third and fourth set. He made better match than me after the second set. I don't have any chance to win until the first game in the fifth set when I had break point. He play well points and he take the opportunity in the fifth set and he win.
Q. When you called the trainer onto the court, did he give you some painkillers for your knee?
JUAN MARTIN DEL POTRO: Yeah, but was to remove my tape just for be more tight. Nothing special.
Q. Are you saying that your knee did not affect your movement at all after the second set?
JUAN MARTIN DEL POTRO: No.
Q. We know that you never try and find excuses for a bad match and you always congratulate the winner, but we had the feeling that you were not moving as fast on the court during the fourth and the fifth set. Did you feel pain?
JUAN MARTIN DEL POTRO: No. What I felt was that Federer was playing his best tennis. As I said, he raised his level; mine started to decrease. We started at the same level. The match was very close. He took my serve on the first set; then I took his back. During the third and fourth set when his level raised, mine went down. In the fifth set I gave everything I had. I gave him an opportunity, and he took it.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 3:43 pm to Unbiased Bama Fan
quote:
I actually found a thread about the topic on MTF (Menstennisforums). Only four players have seven or more career victories coming back from two-set deficits.
Most match wins coming back from two-set deficit
Boris Becker 10
Aaron Krickstein 10
Todd Martin 9
Roger Federer 7
Michael Chang, Kevin Curren, Wayne Ferreira, Andy Murray, David Nalbandian, and Lleyton Hewitt all have came back from two-set deficits six times. So it's pretty rare for a player to have more than seven victories from two-set deficits.
Wow. Nice find.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 3:45 pm to Unbiased Bama Fan
quote:
Del Potro said the knee wasn't an issue during the post-match press conference. However, he might just be downplaying the injury because he doesn't want to make excuses for his poor play.
I'll watch it later on tonight (DVR). But Cahill, Gilbert, and P. Mcenroe all said on their twitter during the match that he was having difficulty moving.
Classy of him not to use it as an excuse, but I think it was a major factor.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 3:50 pm to Unbiased Bama Fan
quote:
I actually found a thread about the topic on MTF (Menstennisforums). Only four players have seven or more career victories coming back from two-set deficits.
Most match wins coming back from two-set deficit
Boris Becker 10
Aaron Krickstein 10
Todd Martin 9
Roger Federer 7
amazing find
pretty much what I expected.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 4:43 pm to bobbyray21
quote:
He is 20. In tennis, if you're an elite talent it's crystal clear by the age of 20 that you're an elite talent. With Harrison, it's about as clear as mud. I don't love Harrison's game at all. What are his weapons? He reminds me of a poor man's Giles Simon. I don't get what all the hype is about. I see him as a top 20 player and nothing more.
130 mph first serve
Elite second serve
Lot of pop from both sides on his ground strokes
Posted on 6/5/12 at 6:04 pm to Bunk Moreland
This is a classic. Epic. Tsonga needs it to rain - bad.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 8:06 pm to bobbyray21
quote:
Just every now and again, there's a Strange Federer Softness. Sometimes you get the sense that he feels he's proved his point in the early games and expects the rest of the match to fall into line out of courtesy. And if it doesn't, if things don't work out as a logical extension of those first few games, he's taken aback. It's not that he lacks the mental strength to compete, more that he loses his decision-making ability because he's genuinely perplexed.
While I agree with that, I'll add Fed NEVER had to play aggressive tennis on "big points" because time and time again his opponents played poorly enough that Fed came through repeatedly. Nadal was not that guy, Federer NEVER adjusted to Nadal's style until maybe 2011.
In two of their epic Finals Federer had more break opportunities, but rarely cashed in and that was the difference in the match. Big points, Fed was thinking he could just rely on errors or poor shot selection from Nadal like he did every other player. Not gonna happen.
Edit: and
at Serena in discussion as best ever. You young pups can be dumb as a sack of rocks, but entertainingly dumb though. 
This post was edited on 6/5/12 at 8:14 pm
Posted on 6/5/12 at 8:34 pm to tuptiger
quote:
130 mph first serve
Elite second serve
Lot of pop from both sides on his ground strokes
He serves the ball well, but it isn't elite. His forehand is good, but it isn't elite. His backhand is a liability. He doesn't hav emuch of a net game, and his return of serve is weak.
That sounds to me like a poor man's Andy Roddick.
To be fair, he moves better than Roddick.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 8:37 pm to DP40
quote:
Edit: and at Serena in discussion as best ever. You young pups can be dumb as a sack of rocks, but entertainingly dumb though
Refute my selection for Serena under the alien test, and then present your own argument.
Why would a publication like SI devote three pages to a discussion on whether Serena is the best ever if it ws such a nonsensical proposition?
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