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re: Final 2011 College Football Strength of Schedule Rankings (updated)

Posted on 11/16/11 at 1:29 pm to
Posted by The White Lobster
Member since Jul 2009
16764 posts
Posted on 11/16/11 at 1:29 pm to
Massey is right. The rest are wrong
Posted by Pilot Tiger
North Carolina
Member since Nov 2005
73895 posts
Posted on 11/16/11 at 1:38 pm to
quote:

Massey is right.
I use Massey for everything.

IMO his rankings are the best, and I've used his predictor model for NAIA basketball games and the outcomes are very very similar
Posted by trackfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
19691 posts
Posted on 11/16/11 at 3:44 pm to
quote:

I use Massey for everything.

IMO his rankings are the best, and I've used his predictor model for NAIA basketball games and the outcomes are very very similar

Massey ranks Kentucky's schedule thus far at #56, the weakest in the SEC and the only SEC schedule weaker than Boise State's. Last year, Kentucky's average schedule rank was #71 which was also the weakest in the SEC, eight spots behind Boise State (#63) and eight spots ahead of TCU (#79). The Wildcats are proof that being in the SEC doesn't guarantee you a tough schedule and that non-conference games do matter no matter what conference you play in.
Posted by Poodlebrain
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
19860 posts
Posted on 11/16/11 at 4:20 pm to
quote:

2 of these 3 polls have 4 Big XII teams in the first four spots ?

If you look at prior years I'll bet you will see that schools from the Pac-10 had very high SOS rankings. It has to do with being in a 10 team conference and playing 9 conference games instead of 8 that the teams in larger conferences play. The extra conference game is on average tougher than a non-conference game. If you look at the Pac-12, I'll bet almost all of them will have lower SOS rankings than last year.
Posted by Poodlebrain
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
19860 posts
Posted on 11/16/11 at 4:39 pm to
quote:

The computers don't have biases towards any particular school or conference.

Actually they must have bias or they would yield identical results since the data being used is the same. How those biases relate to any particular schools or conferences cannot be known without having access to the formula used in each ranking.

From empirical observation I have noticed that the strength of schedule for members of 10 team conferences that play a 9 game round-robin conference schedule tend to be significantly higher than for shools who are members of conferences that play 8 game conference schedules. If you compare the Big-XII and Pac-10 this year and the last few you will see an interesting result. Losing Nebraska and Colorado strengthened the schedules of the Big-XII. Adding Colorado and Utah weakened the PAC-10.

The significance of the change is what causes me to suspect that the strength of schedule impact of the extra conference game is somehow overvalued, or biased.
Posted by trackfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
19691 posts
Posted on 11/16/11 at 5:16 pm to
quote:

The significance of the change is what causes me to suspect that the strength of schedule impact of the extra conference game is somehow overvalued, or biased.

The bias is only towards teams with fewer cupcakes on their schedule, regardless of how many cnnference games they play. Furthermore, having 12 teams in a conference doesn't limit that conference to 8 conference games. The PAC-12 played nine conferences games last year when they had 10 teams and they're playing nine this year with 12 teams.

Usually, teams from AQ conferences schedule at least one competitive non-conference game. This year, the Big 12 plays nine conference games, and since all the teams scheduled one competitive non-conference game, that only leaves room for two cupcakes. That's basically the same as LSU playing eight conference games and two competitive non-conference games (Oregon and West Virginia). And since all the other SEC schools have only scheduled one tough non-conference game, their weaker schedules relative to the Big 12 is to be expected.

However, in Oklahoma State's case, their two would-be cupcakes (ULL and Tulsa) turned out not to be cupcakes this year and the computers are rewarding them for it. The computers see the Cowboys no differently than if they had to play 12 conference games. Also, look at Oregon State's 2010 schedule. Not only did they play nine conference games, but they played non-conference games against TCU and Boise State on the road. Is there any wonder why the computers were unanimous in ranking their schedule the toughest in 2010?
Posted by Poodlebrain
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
19860 posts
Posted on 11/17/11 at 1:21 pm to
According to Sagarin, in 2010 the 10 members of the Pac-10 had the first through tenth highest strength of schedule ratings. The conference average strength of schedule was a perfect 5.50. By contrast the 12 member Big-XII conference had cumulative rankings totaling 460, or an average of 38.33 strength of schedule rating. In 2011 the Pac-12 added two new members, and its cumulative stength of schedule rankings increased from 55 to 343. The average among members is 28.58. The Big-XII lost two members and its cumulative strength of schedule rankings for 2011 are 68, or an average of 6.80 among its members.

That is a very significant differential in favor of conferences with 10 members. I think there is some bias in Sagarin's model to account for the reversal in relative average strengths of schedule rankings among conferences.
Posted by Poodlebrain
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
19860 posts
Posted on 11/20/11 at 10:37 am to
Bump to update after games of 11/18/2011

According to the latest Sagarin rating, the Big-XII members now have the 10 toughest schedules in college football. The fact that the only 10 team conference has had a perfect strength of schedule rating two years running is more than coincidental.
Posted by 7thWardTiger
Richmond, Texas
Member since Nov 2009
24670 posts
Posted on 11/20/11 at 10:38 am to
Houston 100+ in them all
Posted by trackfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
19691 posts
Posted on 11/20/11 at 10:43 am to
LSU took a hit with Oregon losing and Alabama got a boost by Penn State winning.
Posted by OWLFAN86
Erotic Novelist
Member since Jun 2004
195527 posts
Posted on 11/20/11 at 10:43 am to
quote:

15 Rice 16 LSU
quote:

11 Rice
quote:

18 LSU



LSU couldn't win with RICEs Schedule

we should be playing for the BSC championship on principle alone
Posted by filmmaker45
Member since Mar 2008
14554 posts
Posted on 11/20/11 at 10:56 am to
Computers love the Big 12. For some reason.....
Posted by 7thWardTiger
Richmond, Texas
Member since Nov 2009
24670 posts
Posted on 11/20/11 at 11:03 am to
quote:

Computers love the Big 12. For some reason.....
its the strongest conference top to bottom
Posted by gizmoflak
Member since May 2007
11844 posts
Posted on 11/20/11 at 11:10 am to
are OOC results the only thing that really matters when comparing the SOS of one conference to another?
Posted by angryslugs
Member since Apr 2008
11484 posts
Posted on 11/20/11 at 11:19 am to
is it now going to hurt the big 12 that they're all beating up on each other? No team in the top 5 and only in the top 10
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
471112 posts
Posted on 11/20/11 at 11:20 am to
quote:

No team in the top 5

i think OSU may slide in there
Posted by trackfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
19691 posts
Posted on 11/21/11 at 5:58 pm to
Here's the weekly update:

Kenneth Massey
1 LSU
2 Missouri
3 Texas A&M
4 Alabama
5 Oklahoma
6 Oregon
7 Kansas St
8 Oklahoma St
9 Baylor
10 Texas
11 Iowa St
12 USC
13 Tennessee
14 Kansas
15 Arizona
16 Mississippi St
17 Mississippi
18 Texas Tech
19 Florida
20 Auburn
21 Nebraska
22 Arkansas
23 Washington
24 South Carolina
25 Stanford
35 Georgia
40 Boise St
48 Clemson
54 TCU
55 Virginia Tech
110 Houston
119 ULL

Colley Matrix
1 Kansas    
2 Texas A&M    
3 Texas    
4 Baylor    
5 Missouri    
6 Oklahoma    
7 Oklahoma St    
8 Mississippi    
9 Kansas St    
10 Tennessee    
11 Texas Tech    
12 Iowa St    
13 Mississippi St    
14 Arizona    
15 Minnesota    
16 North Carolina    
17 Maryland    
18 Michigan    
19 Nebraska    
20 Auburn    
21 Indiana    
22 Alabama    
23 USC    
24 Florida    
25 Marshall    
28 Oregon    
29 LSU    
43 Georgia    
47 Boise St    
54 Arkansas    
55 Virginia Tech    
61 Clemson    
65 Stanford    
71 TCU    
108 Houston    
112 LA Lafayette    

Jeff Sagarin
1 Kansas
2 Missouri
3 Texas A&M
4 Baylor
5 Kansas State
6 Oklahoma
7 Oklahoma State
8 Iowa State
9 Texas
10 Texas Tech
11 Tennessee
12 Arizona
13 Ole Miss
14 Mississippi State
15 Auburn
16 Minnesota
17 Colorado
18 USC
19 Washington
20 Oregon State
21 Oregon
22 Florida
23 UCLA
24 Alabama
25 LSU
43 Georgia
45 Boise State
48 Stanford
49 Arkansas
54 Clemson
57 Virginia Tech
80 TCU
115 Houston
131 ULL

J Howell
1 Kansas
2 Oklahoma State
3 Texas A&M
4 Missouri
5 Arizona
6 Mississippi
7 Colorado
8 Oklahoma
9 Mississippi State
10 Kansas State
11 Texas
12 Baylor
13 North Carolina
14 Marshall
15 Minnesota
16 Indiana
17 Tennessee
18 Southern California
19 Oregon State
20 Texas Tech
21 Miami (Florida)
22 Oregon
23 Maryland
24 Nebraska
25 Auburn
31 Louisiana State
40 Alabama
49 Virginia Tech
53 Boise State
57 Stanford
61 Clemson
68 Georgia
80 Arkansas
89 Texas Christian
107 Louisiana-Lafayette
113 Houston
Posted by trackfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
19691 posts
Posted on 11/29/11 at 8:41 am to
Here's the week 13 weekly update:

Kenneth Massey
1 LSU
2 Alabama
3 Texas A&M
4 Oregon
5 Iowa St
6 Texas
7 Oklahoma
8 Arkansas
9 Kansas St
10 Oklahoma St
11 Missouri
12 Baylor
13 Auburn
14 USC
15 Mississippi
16 Tennessee
17 Kansas
18 Florida
19 Mississippi St
20 Notre Dame
21 Stanford
22 Texas Tech
23 UCLA
24 Arizona
25 Nebraska
32 Georgia
41 Boise St
46 Wisconsin
51 Tulsa
56 TCU
59 Virginia Tech
98 Houston
116 ULL

Colley Matrix
1 Kansas    
2 Texas A&M    
3 Texas    
4 Oklahoma    
5 Oklahoma St    
6 Mississippi    
7 Baylor    
8 Iowa St    
9 Missouri    
10 Texas Tech    
11 Auburn    
12 Kansas St    
13 Tennessee    
14 Arizona    
15 LSU    
16 Mississippi St    
17 Florida    
18 Minnesota    
19 Oregon St    
20 UCLA    
21 USC    
22 Alabama    
23 Notre Dame    
24 Colorado    
25 Nebraska    
36 Georgia    
40 Clemson    
45 Stanford    
48 Boise St    
64 Virginia Tech    
68 TCU
71 Wisconsin
104 Houston  
113 ULL  

Jeff Sagarin
1 Kansas
2 Texas A&M
3 Iowa State
4 Texas
5 Missouri
6 Baylor
7 Texas Tech
8 Oklahoma State
9 Kansas State
10 Oklahoma
11 Auburn
12 Ole Miss
13 Tennessee
14 Arizona
15 Oregon State
16 UCLA
17 Colorado
18 Minnesota
19 USC
20 LSU
21 Florida
22 Mississippi State
23 Alabama
24 Washington
25 Oregon
28 Arkansas
35 Stanford
39 Georgia
51 Boise State
60 Virginia Tech
64 Wisconsin
75 TCU
111 Houston
123 ULL

JHowell
1 UCLA
2 Kansas
3 Mississippi
4 Colorado
5 Oklahoma State
6 Oklahoma
7 Texas
8 Arizona
9 Louisiana State
10 Texas A&M
11 Oregon State
12 Auburn
13 Iowa State
14 Notre Dame
15 Tennessee
16 Mississippi State
17 Southern California
18 Minnesota
19 Baylor
20 Missouri
21 Georgia
22 Marshall
23 Clemson
24 Oregon
25 Kansas State
35 Virginia Tech
40 Alabama
42 Stanford
53 Arkansas
59 Wisconsin
84 Boise State
99 Houston
105 TCU
112 ULL

With only a few games left to the season, these schedule ranking shouldn't change that much in the last week. One thing that kind of surprised me is that all three of the computers that are used by the BCS rank Boise State's schedule tougher than Virginia Tech's and Wisconsin's.
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
103379 posts
Posted on 11/29/11 at 10:41 am to
quote:

One thing that kind of surprised me is that all three of the computers that are used by the BCS rank Boise State's schedule tougher than Virginia Tech's and Wisconsin's.


Have you looked at those schedules?


Boise State - Georgia (10-2), Toledo (8-4), Tulsa (8-4), Nevada (6-5), Fresno State (4-8), Colorado State (3-8), Air Force (7-5), UNLV (2-9), TCU (9-2), San Diego State (7-4), Wyoming (7-4)

Total record of 71-55, with no I-AA competition, including OOC games against bowl teams in Georgia and Toledo.


Wiscy - UNLV (2-9), Oregon State (3-9), Northern Illinois (9-3), I-AA South Dakota (6-5), Nebraska (9-3), Michigan State (10-2), Indiana (1-11), Ohio State (6-6), Purdue (6-6), Minnesota (3-9), Illinois (6-6), Penn State (9-3)

Total record of 64-67, not including I-AA South Dakota (6-5), with an OOC game against bowl team Northern Illinois.


Virginia Tech - I-AA Appalachian State (8-3), East Carolina (5-7), Arky State (9-2), Marshall (6-6), Clemson (9-3), Miami (6-6), Wake Forest (6-6), BC (4-8), Duke (3-9), Georgia Tech (8-4), UNC (7-5), Virginia (8-4)

Total record of 71-64, not including I-AA App State (8-3) with OOC games against bowl teams Arky State and Marshall.


Boise's schedule is the best of the three easily, IMHO, considering the quality of the wins some of those teams have.

10-2 Georgia and 8-4 Tulsa are both better than 9-2 Arky State, for instance.
Posted by trackfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
19691 posts
Posted on 11/29/11 at 11:08 am to
The sad thing is that Wisconsin was two Hail Marys away from going undefeated, and many folks would have been willing to put them in the championship game ahead of Alabama if they had. Their schedule was also weaker than Boise State's last year, but they don't get scrutinized and ridiculed for their schedule because they are in an AQ conference.
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