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How and why did the SEC select Arkansas and S. Carolina?

Posted on 6/11/10 at 9:35 am
Posted by GeorgeTheGreek
Sparta, Greece
Member since Mar 2008
68602 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 9:35 am
For those of us too young to remember.

Any why did the SWC collapse?
Posted by Tiger Phil
I see burnt orange everywhere
Member since Nov 2007
1669 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 9:44 am to
Here's my recollection.

Roy Kramer found a rule in the NCAA rules that stated that a conference with 12 teams could stage a championship game. This rule predated the 12-team SEC. So he set out to add 2 teams to the SEC.

The original targets were Texas and Texas A&M. But political pressures - the governor of Texas at the time, Ann Richards, insisted that Baylor get to go wherever the two big state schools went, or their funding might be in jeopardy - stymied that move. Texas and A&M also flirted with the Pac-10 around this time. Sensing the opportunity, Frank Broyles inserted Arkansas into that position. At the time, Arkansas was one of the two dominant teams in the SWC, along with A&M.

Seeking to fill out the 12, the SEC reached out to independant Florida State. But at the same time, the ACC, then at 8 members, saw the opportunity to gain a little football prestige and offered them at the same time. They opted for the lesser competition of the ACC, where they would go on to win all but one of their conference games for the first nine years or something absurd like that b

Still in need of a 12th team, the SEC took the next, closest, State univeristy, South Carolina. Almost by default.

Anyone else have a different recollection?
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
103146 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 9:49 am to
That pretty much covers the SEC side of things.


The SWC side of things is that the conference was a recruiting-violations arms race during the 70s and 80s, with the big "oh shite" moment being SMU getting whacked with the death penalty circa 1986-1987 after getting caught paying players from a slush fund for the second time in a short span.

Between that and about half the conference being on probation for a number of years, programs with some name recognition like Texas, A&M, and Arkansas started looking for the door.
Posted by wmr
North of Dickson, South of Herman's
Member since Mar 2009
32518 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 9:50 am to
That's right but you have a little bit of it wrong.

The "Baylor" pressure by Ann Richards was applied when The Big 12 was formed as they weren't any more viable than Houston or SMU in reality.

The pressure about leaving the SWC was more about ALL of the Texas schools knowing they'd be screwed if/when Texas and A&M left.

Arkansas had flirted with the Big 8 years before and we were looking to get out if any opportunity came up.

Posted by wmr
North of Dickson, South of Herman's
Member since Mar 2009
32518 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 9:53 am to
Arkansas was only one of two SWC schools who didn't get written up for violations.
Posted by BhamTigah
Lurker since Jan 2003
Member since Jan 2007
17381 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 9:54 am to
You guys covered that pretty well. The FSU decision was made mostly on the input of Bowden. He came out and said that in the SEC, FSU would be an also ran due to competition, whereas in the ACC, they could dominate and actually build a national championship caliber program.

People often say Bowden should have come to the SEC, but I would say he was a freaking prophet.
Posted by Tiger Phil
I see burnt orange everywhere
Member since Nov 2007
1669 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:00 am to
The SWC broke up because they were overcome by competitive greed. Almost all of the 8 remaining schools were placed on probation at some point in the 80s. SMU, of course, received the legendary "Death Penalty". And much of the cheating was revealed to the media and NCAA by their rival schools!

They had weakened themselves so much that Texas and Texas A&M wanted out. The Big 8, seeing the success that the SEC experienced with it's championship game, wanted to add 4 teams. These two desires led to UT, A&M and TT being drawn to the expanded Big 8. If the moves had happened five years previous, during the height of the Jack Pardee, Andre Ware years, Houston would have been the no-brainer fourth team. However, Pardee's successor, John Jenkins, absolutely destroyed the program. I mean obliterated it. Stepping into the gap was Baylor, championed by then-governor Anne Richards, a proud Baylor graduate. As I mentiioned earlier, she threatened to adjust the funding (do a wikipedia search for Permanent University Fund) for the state schools if her little private school wasn't brought along.

So there you go. The death of the SWC and the birth of the Big XII.
Posted by GeorgeTheGreek
Sparta, Greece
Member since Mar 2008
68602 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:07 am to
Cool. I appreciate it fellas. Thanks.
Posted by Tiger in Texas
Houston, Texas
Member since Sep 2004
22017 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:13 am to
quote:

Anyone else have a different recollection?


Just to add a tidbit, right before the SWC imploded, they reached out to LSU and I believe there was one other school, (can't remember who) to join, but of course, LSU had no interest, for good reason...
Posted by Tiger Phil
I see burnt orange everywhere
Member since Nov 2007
1669 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:26 am to
Yeah. It's fun to think about the relative innocence of those days. All the SEC wanted was to be able to stage an extra game.

Posted by Tawanda
Member since Oct 2009
1690 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:32 am to
The way I remember it, the SEC wanted to add two teams for the above mentioned reasons. First choice was Texas in the west and South Carolina in the east. The Texas legislature threatened to cut off funding to Texas unless Texas A&M was also included in the deal, so the deal fell through. Arkansas was added instead to achieve the desired twelve members.
Posted by LSUfannLA
No Man's Land
Member since Aug 2004
26536 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:35 am to
One thing I do remember was that when all the talk started Tulane did apply to be readmitted to the SEC.
Posted by itawambadog
America, F Yeah!
Member since Nov 2007
21266 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:42 am to
quote:

Just to add a tidbit, right before the SWC imploded, they reached out to LSU and I believe there was one other school, (can't remember who) to join, but of course, LSU had no interest, for good reason...


I think they reached out to LSU and Ole Miss at one time.
Posted by Rockerbraves
Greatest Nation on Earth
Member since Feb 2007
8015 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:53 am to
quote:

Arkansas had flirted with the Big 8 years before and we were looking to get out if any opportunity came up.
The Hogs IMO should have gone to the Big 12.
Posted by HawgAlude
Member since Jul 2008
5658 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:56 am to
re: How and why did the SEC select Arkansas and S. Carolina?

I think that they wanted a National Championship in Basketball at the time. Arkansas for the 15th time would not have been invited to the Big 12. We would have been independent or in Conference USA.
Posted by Rockerbraves
Greatest Nation on Earth
Member since Feb 2007
8015 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:59 am to
Just seems if I were an Arkansas fan I would miss alot of those Texas rivals.
Posted by BhamTigah
Lurker since Jan 2003
Member since Jan 2007
17381 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 11:04 am to
quote:

First choice was Texas in the west and South Carolina in the east.


South Carolina was a back-up plan. They have never been anyone's 1st choice (except maybe Brad Scott).
Posted by DocHog
Member since Nov 2006
1929 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 11:11 am to
Broyles was the mastermind in the SWC.

Quit acting like we were an afterthought for an SEC bid. You guys are not only wrong but completely uninformed re: Frank Broyles' pull 20 years ago.

Can't speak for USCe though
Posted by BhamTigah
Lurker since Jan 2003
Member since Jan 2007
17381 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 11:15 am to
quote:

Broyles was the mastermind in the SWC.

Quit acting like we were an afterthought for an SEC bid.


I didn't say anything about the piggies.
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
60798 posts
Posted on 6/11/10 at 11:16 am to
quote:

He came out and said that in the SEC, FSU would be an also ran due to competition, whereas in the ACC, they could dominate and actually build a national championship caliber program.


They were a NC caliber program before they joined the ACC.

Florida dominated the SEC during the 90's? Florida State was 6-3-1 in regular season, 1-1 in bowls against Florida. No way they run off 14 strait 11 win, top 4 seasons in the SEC, but no way are they a "also ran" in the SEC during that time either.
This post was edited on 6/11/10 at 12:20 pm
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