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re: ...why...
Posted on 3/15/10 at 9:56 am to ClientNumber9
Posted on 3/15/10 at 9:56 am to ClientNumber9
quote:
(Also, this wouldn't benefit Brees, as Manning had a better post-season from a statistical standpoint.)
So because Brees had a higher passer rating (which takes into account all the statistics), somehow that means Manning had a statistically better post season?
You fail.
2
Posted on 3/15/10 at 9:59 am to GeauxDT
quote:
Manning has controlled that offense for years. There's no way in hell a rookie head coach is going to mess with that, so that point doesn't really prove he was regular season MVP worthy.
Still, Peyton Manning was the figure head of the team that changed its HEAD COACH. He gets the credit for that.
quote:
Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark were no name WR's?
Garcon and Collie. Why are you talking about Clark in a thread about WR's?
quote:
They allowed 10 sacks, 10, in the whole regular season. Thats HALF of what the Saints line did for Brees. I'd call that line better than mediocre this year.
You fail to mention how the Colts were dead last in the league in rushing the ball. Pretty important in evaluating an Oline performance.
quote:
Before this year, outside of us Saints fans, who REALLY considered Pierre Thomas, Reggie Bush, and Mike Bell as a mediocre or above RB corps? Not me. After this season, they are an excellent group which is due to many factors including OL actually run blocking, but previous to this season, no one outside of NOLA considered PT to be a better runner than Addai...
Okay... Colts still had a sucky arse group of RB's.
quote:
That is the reason I believe he won it. The Dallas game. And my previously stated reasons that his last name was Manning and he already had a SB ring.
Which was why it was one of my reasons. And Manning has stripes is not to be forgotten or undervalued. Now Drew has a stripe, he should capitalize on it next year. If it's a close race between him and Aaron Rodgers next year, you better believe Drew will get more favoritism and credibility in the voting.
No, i'm not joking. I said the whole year peyton would be mvp, he was. I hope you're joking.
Posted on 3/15/10 at 10:01 am to Lakebound
quote:
Do the Colts win it with Brees under center, or does a Manning finally lead New Orleans to an NFL championship?
Thats too tough to think about this early in the morning, hah.
quote:
Was Darren Sharper the MVP?
I thought he could've won the defensive MVP, but everyone was on Revis Island's nuts. Sharper was top 3 for me in that.
Posted on 3/15/10 at 10:02 am to LNCHBOX
Based on the stats provided by the OP, Manning is statistically better in the post season. He averages a higher ranking. Do the math, and you'll realize this.
Posted on 3/15/10 at 10:04 am to ClientNumber9
quote:
Do the math, and you'll realize this.
There are more stats than those, hence Brees' higher rating. QB rating covers all those stats and then some.
Brees was better in the post season. That is a fact.
Posted on 3/15/10 at 10:08 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
Brees was better in the post season. That is a IRRELEVANT.
FIFY
Posted on 3/15/10 at 10:18 am to Chad504boy
The guy said if post season was included in deciding the MVP it wouldn't have helped Brees. He's wrong. I know it is irrelevant.
Posted on 3/15/10 at 10:32 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
The guy said if post season was included in deciding the MVP it wouldn't have helped Brees. He's wrong. I know it is irrelevant.
excluding the super bowl... it probably wouldn't have helped.
Posted on 3/15/10 at 10:33 am to Chad504boy
quote:
Still, Peyton Manning was the figure head of the team that changed its HEAD COACH. He gets the credit for that.
If they would've had to replace Tom Moore, the OC, instead of Dungy, and Peyton still had the year he did, then you would have a point there. But you don't. Moore has been with Manning since the Colts drafted him and that system has NOT changed since. Caldwell knows damn well not to touch Moore and Peyton's system.
quote:
Garcon and Collie. Why are you talking about Clark in a thread about WR's?
Is Clark not one of the most prolific receiving TE's of the past few years? Look at his reception numbers, his production has been increasing drastically the past few years. Damn, this year in the regular season he had the same amount of receptions as Wayne, 100, and the same amount of TD's, 10. When your TE has near exact numbers to the #1 WR on your team, he is basically a WR. On the flip side, who would Moore or Henderson be without Brees?
quote:
You fail to mention how the Colts were dead last in the league in rushing the ball. Pretty important in evaluating an Oline performance.
You fail to realize we are talking about comparing the stats of 2 QB's up for the MVP. Not rushing yardage per game. The OL's run blocking has nothing to do when comparing QB's. They protected Manning when he passed better than our OL protected Brees when we passed.
quote:
Okay... Colts still had a sucky arse group of RB's.
Addai had more receptions and yards than Bush or Pierre by themselves, although combined, Bush/PT did have more. That is a legit win for Brees.
quote:
If it's a close race between him and Aaron Rodgers next year, you better believe Drew will get more favoritism and credibility in the voting
No doubt Brees will now. Im with you here.
Posted on 3/15/10 at 10:37 am to GeauxDT
quote:
If they would've had to replace Tom Moore, the OC, instead of Dungy, and Peyton still had the year he did, then you would have a point there. But you don't. Moore has been with Manning since the Colts drafted him and that system has NOT changed since. Caldwell knows damn well not to touch Moore and Peyton's system.
Logic doesn't change perception.
quote:
Is Clark not one of the most prolific receiving TE's of the past few years? Look at his reception numbers, his production has been increasing drastically the past few years. Damn, this year in the regular season he had the same amount of receptions as Wayne, 100, and the same amount of TD's, 10. When your TE has near exact numbers to the #1 WR on your team, he is basically a WR. On the flip side, who would Moore or Henderson be without Brees?
Clark is a TE, i said nothing about the TE position. Get over it.
quote:
You fail to realize we are talking about comparing the stats of 2 QB's up for the MVP. Not rushing yardage per game. The OL's run blocking has nothing to do when comparing QB's. They protected Manning when he passed better than our OL protected Brees when we passed.
When a team has no rushing attack and still has the best record in the NFL, more credit goes to the qb. Take your who dat glasses off for a second.
quote:
Addai had more receptions and yards than Bush or Pierre by themselves, although combined, Bush/PT did have more. That is a legit win for Brees.
What the hell are you talking about. Colts averaged 3.5 per rush compared to new Orleans 4.5.
quote:
No doubt Brees will now. Im with you here.
Same theory applies.
Posted on 3/15/10 at 10:38 am to Chad504boy
quote:
excluding the super bowl... it probably wouldn't have helped.
All I'm saying is the guy said Manning was statistically better in the postseason than Brees. That is wrong. I never said it would help or hurt.
ETA: Also, I could care less who the MVP is. We won the trophy that matters.
This post was edited on 3/15/10 at 10:39 am
Posted on 3/15/10 at 10:52 am to LNCHBOX
Again, not that it matters, but Manning had a better post-season. At the very, very least it was too close to give Brees some definitive edge.
Manning had more attempts, more yards, more completions, and was 1st in a ton of categories. If you took away the names and just posted the numbers, you'd see this. Brees won the ultimate prize, so none of this matters, but you can't tell me Manning has zero claim for having had a better postseason than Brees.
Manning had more attempts, more yards, more completions, and was 1st in a ton of categories. If you took away the names and just posted the numbers, you'd see this. Brees won the ultimate prize, so none of this matters, but you can't tell me Manning has zero claim for having had a better postseason than Brees.
Posted on 3/15/10 at 11:27 am to ClientNumber9
quote:
If you took away the names and just posted the numbers, you'd see this.
Who had the higher rating?
I'm done with this, you can't read.
Posted on 3/15/10 at 11:49 am to Lakebound
Only because they were undefeated basically the whole way and that got all the press.
It all BS anyway, we got the trophy that counts!! Remember, all the snubbing by the press and awards and everything else, that was all fuel to the Saints fire during preparations. Everybody was handing the trophy to the Colts and rubbing them down with comments of how much better they were etc. Meanwhile we were hearing how hard it was going to be to even be in the game much less win it.
It ALL worked in our favor and I wouldn't change a thing!!!!
It all BS anyway, we got the trophy that counts!! Remember, all the snubbing by the press and awards and everything else, that was all fuel to the Saints fire during preparations. Everybody was handing the trophy to the Colts and rubbing them down with comments of how much better they were etc. Meanwhile we were hearing how hard it was going to be to even be in the game much less win it.
It ALL worked in our favor and I wouldn't change a thing!!!!
Posted on 3/15/10 at 11:57 am to LNCHBOX
So because Brees had a better rating, then clearly the argument is over, huh?
When you're analyzing a pitcher, do you JUST look at ERA? Or do you also consider IP, Ks, BBs, Ws?
Looking at totality of the statistics provided by the OP, you cannot definitively say Brees was better. In fact, its pretty easy to state the opposite.
Please take off the black and gold glasses for just two seconds.
When you're analyzing a pitcher, do you JUST look at ERA? Or do you also consider IP, Ks, BBs, Ws?
Looking at totality of the statistics provided by the OP, you cannot definitively say Brees was better. In fact, its pretty easy to state the opposite.
Please take off the black and gold glasses for just two seconds.
Posted on 3/15/10 at 11:57 am to LNCHBOX
This is similiar to 2008 when Kobe won the MVP over Chris Paul, even though CP3 was an emerging star who had better all-around numbers at PG than Kobe had at SG.
Kobe and Peyton won more games for their teams than CP3 and Brees had at the time.
Also, at the time of voting, neither CP3 nor Brees had won a championship, and thus, had no real clout with the voters. You don't get the gratuituous vote of greatness until you win it all (exception: putting up never-seen-before numbers).
For example, if Matt Schaub throws for 5,000 yds this coming year but the Texans go 9-7, while Brees throws for only 4200 yds, but the Saints repeat as NFC conference winners with another 13-3 record, Brees will win the MVP cuz he now has winner's clout.
Kobe and Peyton won more games for their teams than CP3 and Brees had at the time.
Also, at the time of voting, neither CP3 nor Brees had won a championship, and thus, had no real clout with the voters. You don't get the gratuituous vote of greatness until you win it all (exception: putting up never-seen-before numbers).
For example, if Matt Schaub throws for 5,000 yds this coming year but the Texans go 9-7, while Brees throws for only 4200 yds, but the Saints repeat as NFC conference winners with another 13-3 record, Brees will win the MVP cuz he now has winner's clout.
Posted on 3/15/10 at 2:43 pm to ClientNumber9
quote:
Please take off the black and gold glasses for just two seconds.
When did I say Brees should have been MVP? All I said is that Brees had the higher rating. The baseball analogy doesn't work because they do not have an overall rating that ties in all aspects of the position. Quarterback does, and Brees's was better. That is my only claim.
quote:
Looking at totality of the statistics provided by the OP
More stats exist than those.
Even so, Brees had the higher rating, which again takes into account everything about the QB. Can you not get that?
This post was edited on 3/15/10 at 2:44 pm
Posted on 3/15/10 at 2:55 pm to LNCHBOX
Again, specifically referring to the postseason stats, you need to look past the QB rating. The ERA includes many stats, too, but there's much more to it.
If the QB rating took into account all the vital stats into one, then tell me how did Manning have way more attempts, way more completions, way more yards, a better completion percentage and only one less td and one more int, yet have 10 more passer rating points?
If you showed me each stat line of playoff totals and hid the names, you would have to give it to the guy with more yards, attempts, completions, passing percentage, and with slightly less tds. I wonder if you weren't a Saints fan if you'd be so wed to your argument. I'm a Saints fan that can be objective. You can't.
If you took the post season stats of Brees and Manning in the biggest categories listed above, Manning had a better playoff run by the numbers. Brees was #5 or 6 in most of those categories, Manning was #1 or 2.
Again, I wouldn't have had it turn out any other way, and none of this matters, but to say that Brees had a better postseason is wrong.
If the QB rating took into account all the vital stats into one, then tell me how did Manning have way more attempts, way more completions, way more yards, a better completion percentage and only one less td and one more int, yet have 10 more passer rating points?
If you showed me each stat line of playoff totals and hid the names, you would have to give it to the guy with more yards, attempts, completions, passing percentage, and with slightly less tds. I wonder if you weren't a Saints fan if you'd be so wed to your argument. I'm a Saints fan that can be objective. You can't.
If you took the post season stats of Brees and Manning in the biggest categories listed above, Manning had a better playoff run by the numbers. Brees was #5 or 6 in most of those categories, Manning was #1 or 2.
Again, I wouldn't have had it turn out any other way, and none of this matters, but to say that Brees had a better postseason is wrong.
Posted on 3/15/10 at 3:00 pm to ClientNumber9
quote:
If the QB rating took into account all the vital stats into one, then tell me how did Manning have way more attempts, way more completions, way more yards, a better completion percentage and only one less td and one more int, yet have 10 more passer rating points?
What the hell are you talking about? Brees had FIVE fewer INTS and set an NFL record for completion percentage, so that's not even close to being accurate. Did you bother looking anything up before posting this? Brees also had .6ypa more than Manning, which is pretty significant. Jump another .6ypa below Manning and you're in Flacco/Vince Young territory.
Posted on 3/15/10 at 3:08 pm to ClientNumber9
quote:
to say that Brees had a better postseason is wrong.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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