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Chavis Question
Posted on 5/13/09 at 1:42 am
Posted on 5/13/09 at 1:42 am
honestly.. not trying to start anything.. but is John Chavis, LSUs new Defensive coordinator, expected to shore up the LSU defense and have them competing again for the SEC title, is he overrated?
i ask this question because i was going through some stats over the past couple of years..
in 2007, in which the vols went to the SEC championship game, the tennessee defense was 11th in the conference..
this defense, had DE Robert Ayers (1st round pick), DT Demonte Bolden ( All SEC), LB Jerrod Mayo (1st round pick), and S Eric Berry (all american)..
this defense gave up 471yds and 45 points to a pac ten team, california, that averaged only 408 and 29..
against alabama the 75th best offense (374ypg and 27ppg) put up 510 yards and 41 points on the vols defense..
that included John Parker Wilson, not a dominating quarterback, going 32-46 for 363yds and 3td... while also giving up 104 yds to terry grant..
the very next week at home against south carolina (77th offense 372ypg and 26 ppg) they gave up 501yds and if it wasn't for 4 south carolina turnovers (2 interceptions -one by berry- and 2 fumbles) they would've given up more than 24 points...
this defense also gave up 230 yards rushing to UL lafayette..
it seems like teams with weaker offenses were putting up some good yards on them.. now i will also note that this tennessee defense did also shut down some offenses too (georgia, arkansas, vandy, and wisconsin)
in 2008.. this defense was on the fied ALOT.. but lost @ UCLA (112th in total offense),
beat UAB (56th in tota offense, but C-USA,
lost at home to Florida (who was 71st in total offense during the months of august/september.. aka before the ole miss loss),
lost @ auburn (104th worst offense),
beat northern illinois (83rd in total offense and also a MAC team),
lost @ Georgia (22nd in total offense, but actually gave up more than georgias offense was averaging.. gave up 458 bulldogs avg 426),
beat Mississippi state (114th in total offense),
lost to Alabama (64th in total offense),
lost @ South Carolina (97th in total offense),
lost to wyoming (108th in total offense and lower tier MWC team),
beat Vanderbilt (118th in total offense),
and finally beat Kentucky (106th in total offense).. did all of this with DE Robert Ayers, DT Demonte Bolden, S Eric Berry, and All SEC lbs Ellix Wison and Rico McCoy
so while the numbers are there.. the competition really isn't..
so i'm not tryin to say that he won't bring LSU's defense back to the top.. but what is your honest opinion of chavis? asked this on the sec rant as well.. Just curious
thanks
i ask this question because i was going through some stats over the past couple of years..
in 2007, in which the vols went to the SEC championship game, the tennessee defense was 11th in the conference..
this defense, had DE Robert Ayers (1st round pick), DT Demonte Bolden ( All SEC), LB Jerrod Mayo (1st round pick), and S Eric Berry (all american)..
this defense gave up 471yds and 45 points to a pac ten team, california, that averaged only 408 and 29..
against alabama the 75th best offense (374ypg and 27ppg) put up 510 yards and 41 points on the vols defense..
that included John Parker Wilson, not a dominating quarterback, going 32-46 for 363yds and 3td... while also giving up 104 yds to terry grant..
the very next week at home against south carolina (77th offense 372ypg and 26 ppg) they gave up 501yds and if it wasn't for 4 south carolina turnovers (2 interceptions -one by berry- and 2 fumbles) they would've given up more than 24 points...
this defense also gave up 230 yards rushing to UL lafayette..
it seems like teams with weaker offenses were putting up some good yards on them.. now i will also note that this tennessee defense did also shut down some offenses too (georgia, arkansas, vandy, and wisconsin)
in 2008.. this defense was on the fied ALOT.. but lost @ UCLA (112th in total offense),
beat UAB (56th in tota offense, but C-USA,
lost at home to Florida (who was 71st in total offense during the months of august/september.. aka before the ole miss loss),
lost @ auburn (104th worst offense),
beat northern illinois (83rd in total offense and also a MAC team),
lost @ Georgia (22nd in total offense, but actually gave up more than georgias offense was averaging.. gave up 458 bulldogs avg 426),
beat Mississippi state (114th in total offense),
lost to Alabama (64th in total offense),
lost @ South Carolina (97th in total offense),
lost to wyoming (108th in total offense and lower tier MWC team),
beat Vanderbilt (118th in total offense),
and finally beat Kentucky (106th in total offense).. did all of this with DE Robert Ayers, DT Demonte Bolden, S Eric Berry, and All SEC lbs Ellix Wison and Rico McCoy
so while the numbers are there.. the competition really isn't..
so i'm not tryin to say that he won't bring LSU's defense back to the top.. but what is your honest opinion of chavis? asked this on the sec rant as well.. Just curious
thanks
15
Posted on 5/13/09 at 1:46 am to batteman
That defense didn't have the D-Line and CB talent we have. D-Line pressure plus Above Average-Average CB's equals turnovers.
Posted on 5/13/09 at 8:05 am to batteman
Chavis had a young defense in '07 that didn't mature until towards the end of that season.
For the '08 season, that is the type of stuff that can happen when the offense is a POS. In this generation of college football, defensive struggles are not as common as they used to be. You gotta score to ensure yourself of success. Chavis came to a team with better offensive weapons and if he can do his part with the defense , LSU should be better.
quote:
n 2008.. this defense was on the fied ALOT.. but lost @ UCLA (112th in total offense),
beat UAB (56th in tota offense, but C-USA,
lost at home to Florida (who was 71st in total offense during the months of august/september.. aka before the ole miss loss),
lost @ auburn (104th worst offense),
beat northern illinois (83rd in total offense and also a MAC team),
lost @ Georgia (22nd in total offense, but actually gave up more than georgias offense was averaging.. gave up 458 bulldogs avg 426),
beat Mississippi state (114th in total offense),
lost to Alabama (64th in total offense),
lost @ South Carolina (97th in total offense),
lost to wyoming (108th in total offense and lower tier MWC team),
beat Vanderbilt (118th in total offense),
and finally beat Kentucky (106th in total offense).. did all of this with DE Robert Ayers, DT Demonte Bolden, S Eric Berry, and All SEC lbs Ellix Wison and Rico McCoy
so while the numbers are there.. the competition really isn't..
For the '08 season, that is the type of stuff that can happen when the offense is a POS. In this generation of college football, defensive struggles are not as common as they used to be. You gotta score to ensure yourself of success. Chavis came to a team with better offensive weapons and if he can do his part with the defense , LSU should be better.
Posted on 5/13/09 at 8:07 am to batteman
Such an overly simplistic view. I love how you throw Ayers' name out there. Dude was pretty much invisible until the Senior Bowl. What team in the SEC would Ellix and Rico be All-SEC? Jerrod Mayo was good, but not great at UT. He blew them away at the combine, which made him a 1st rounder.
Obviously Bolden and Berry were talents, but the 08 team was not that talented. 2006 and 2007 were pretty much outliers for Chavis. There was alot of turmoil on the team after Fulmer led the team to his 1st losing season in 05. Alot of this was fostered by an attitude created by Kelley Washington. . .but that's another story entirely.
Imagine what people could have said about Nutt before coming to Old Piss. . .
Obviously Bolden and Berry were talents, but the 08 team was not that talented. 2006 and 2007 were pretty much outliers for Chavis. There was alot of turmoil on the team after Fulmer led the team to his 1st losing season in 05. Alot of this was fostered by an attitude created by Kelley Washington. . .but that's another story entirely.
Imagine what people could have said about Nutt before coming to Old Piss. . .
Posted on 5/13/09 at 8:09 am to batteman
You also have to look at how awful Tennessee's offense was. Their defense was always on the field. If JL doesn't start at QB for the tigers then I suspect that we won't have that same problem.
Posted on 5/13/09 at 8:56 am to batteman
quote:
honestly.. not trying to start anything..
When a post starts with so obvious and blatant a lie, it's difficult to get motivated to read the rest of it.
Posted on 5/13/09 at 9:33 am to batteman
quote:
honestly.. not trying to start anything
you arent? seems quite the opposite imo
Posted on 5/13/09 at 11:18 am to batteman
HOw long was Chavis the DC at one of the top football programs in the SEC and country for that matter? Unless the decision makers over there are complete idiots, you would have to think he's at least very good. Is he a great DC?..probably not..but he knows linebacking and our new DB coach is one of the best, and our DL coach is pretty respected.
Put them all together and I dont think many offenses are gonna be happy to face this defense...
Put them all together and I dont think many offenses are gonna be happy to face this defense...
Posted on 5/13/09 at 12:37 pm to batteman
quote:
is John Chavis, LSUs new Defensive coordinator, expected to shore up the LSU defense and have them competing again for the SEC title, is he overrated?
Yes. Simplified scheme and less reliance on substitutions will have instant impact.
I'd say he's overrated on the rant, but he's very good. He is undoubtably an improvement over last year. I like how he is vocal and had an in-your-face attitude during Spring practice. The players have consistently noted the change and they like it. Our last co-ordinators didn't seem to have that fire.
I wonder how he compares to past coordinators Pelini and Muschamp.
Posted on 5/13/09 at 12:47 pm to batteman
quote:
in 2007, in which the vols went to the SEC championship game, the tennessee defense was 11th in the conference..
UT had a few great defensive players in 2007 and the other 6 or 7 on defense stunk worse than my high school team. A defense is only as good as it's weakest link.
quote:
in 2008.. this defense was on the fied ALOT
enough said. They were a pretty good defense considering how bad UT's offense was. I bet I could count on 1 hand the # of possessions the UT offense did not go 3 and out.
Also, LSU's overall talent at EVERY position is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UT's talent at EVERY position on defense.
So to answer your question:
quote:
but is John Chavis, LSUs new Defensive coordinator, expected to shore up the LSU defense and have them competing again for the SEC title, is he overrated?
Yes, he will help win the SEC WEST, compete against UF for the overall title and National Championship in his very first year.
Posted on 5/13/09 at 12:51 pm to batteman
overrated guy, no is my answer because of LSU's talent, give credit to Les he knew what he was doing on this one, he knew that the defense had collapsed to unimaginable levels and what did he do, he went out and hired 3 of the best people he could find that were experts in all 3 phases of the defense. I'm anxious to see the results.
This post was edited on 5/13/09 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 5/13/09 at 1:26 pm to batteman
I'll weigh in.
First, I noticed your critique focused on stats in '07 and W/L in '08. Its a bit inconsistent, but what happened?
First, the '07 team was really young in the Secondary. Of the starters at the end of the year (Berry, Vinson, Rogan, Heffney) only Heffney had experience. While Berry was ready from Day 1, the other guys had to develop. We were really playing a bunch of Dime backs until they got ready. The '07 Defense did well against running teams (UGA, Ark, Wisc, etc.) but not so well against passing teams like Cal and UF.
The '08 Defense did what is was supposed to. Held the teams it played in check. They finished 3rd Nationally behind USC and TCU, I'm not quite sure what else should be expected out of them (besides stopping a GW drive at UCLA). They scored and set up score for the offense about as much as the Offense scored on their own.
Regardless, to focus on '06-'08 when its obvious our talent was down is a little silly. This was a huge Fulmer hater argument on the Vol Boards... so it's been discussed. Our Defense was poor in '07, average in '06 and very good to great every other year that he was coordinator. We didn't really have a decade of defense like the '95-'05 Defense since the Neyland Era.
Fact is, we will know a lot about Chavis in 2-3 years. If LSU's defense is very good it will reflect well on him, and poorly on the total recruiting job of the UT staff.
First, I noticed your critique focused on stats in '07 and W/L in '08. Its a bit inconsistent, but what happened?
First, the '07 team was really young in the Secondary. Of the starters at the end of the year (Berry, Vinson, Rogan, Heffney) only Heffney had experience. While Berry was ready from Day 1, the other guys had to develop. We were really playing a bunch of Dime backs until they got ready. The '07 Defense did well against running teams (UGA, Ark, Wisc, etc.) but not so well against passing teams like Cal and UF.
The '08 Defense did what is was supposed to. Held the teams it played in check. They finished 3rd Nationally behind USC and TCU, I'm not quite sure what else should be expected out of them (besides stopping a GW drive at UCLA). They scored and set up score for the offense about as much as the Offense scored on their own.
Regardless, to focus on '06-'08 when its obvious our talent was down is a little silly. This was a huge Fulmer hater argument on the Vol Boards... so it's been discussed. Our Defense was poor in '07, average in '06 and very good to great every other year that he was coordinator. We didn't really have a decade of defense like the '95-'05 Defense since the Neyland Era.
Fact is, we will know a lot about Chavis in 2-3 years. If LSU's defense is very good it will reflect well on him, and poorly on the total recruiting job of the UT staff.
quote:
honestly.. not trying to start anything.. but is John Chavis, LSUs new Defensive coordinator, expected to shore up the LSU defense and have them competing again for the SEC title, is he overrated?
i ask this question because i was going through some stats over the past couple of years..
in 2007, in which the vols went to the SEC championship game, the tennessee defense was 11th in the conference..
this defense, had DE Robert Ayers (1st round pick), DT Demonte Bolden ( All SEC), LB Jerrod Mayo (1st round pick), and S Eric Berry (all american)..
this defense gave up 471yds and 45 points to a pac ten team, california, that averaged only 408 and 29..
against alabama the 75th best offense (374ypg and 27ppg) put up 510 yards and 41 points on the vols defense..
that included John Parker Wilson, not a dominating quarterback, going 32-46 for 363yds and 3td... while also giving up 104 yds to terry grant..
the very next week at home against south carolina (77th offense 372ypg and 26 ppg) they gave up 501yds and if it wasn't for 4 south carolina turnovers (2 interceptions -one by berry- and 2 fumbles) they would've given up more than 24 points...
this defense also gave up 230 yards rushing to UL lafayette..
it seems like teams with weaker offenses were putting up some good yards on them.. now i will also note that this tennessee defense did also shut down some offenses too (georgia, arkansas, vandy, and wisconsin)
in 2008.. this defense was on the fied ALOT.. but lost @ UCLA (112th in total offense),
beat UAB (56th in tota offense, but C-USA,
lost at home to Florida (who was 71st in total offense during the months of august/september.. aka before the ole miss loss),
lost @ auburn (104th worst offense),
beat northern illinois (83rd in total offense and also a MAC team),
lost @ Georgia (22nd in total offense, but actually gave up more than georgias offense was averaging.. gave up 458 bulldogs avg 426),
beat Mississippi state (114th in total offense),
lost to Alabama (64th in total offense),
lost @ South Carolina (97th in total offense),
lost to wyoming (108th in total offense and lower tier MWC team),
beat Vanderbilt (118th in total offense),
and finally beat Kentucky (106th in total offense).. did all of this with DE Robert Ayers, DT Demonte Bolden, S Eric Berry, and All SEC lbs Ellix Wison and Rico McCoy
so while the numbers are there.. the competition really isn't..
so i'm not tryin to say that he won't bring LSU's defense back to the top.. but what is your honest opinion of chavis? asked this on the sec rant as well.. Just curious
Posted on 5/13/09 at 9:25 pm to batteman
If all that Chavis does is mimic his defense from Tenn then I don't think Tiger fans will be too happy. We can be better than that.
Personally, I think Chavis has lots of knowledge and hopefully his new environs will translate into a more agressive style on defense.
Personally, I think Chavis has lots of knowledge and hopefully his new environs will translate into a more agressive style on defense.
Posted on 5/13/09 at 9:45 pm to batteman
This is a valid question despite the venom you might get spit on you by other people.
A lot of times when a team has a lousy offense and a good defense the defensive statistics will suffer. Because if you are constantly having 3 and outs on offense the D will get worn down and will give up points.
The reason I see Chavis as a good hire is because ever since UT's decline in recent years it's always seemed that still the Vols had a good defense. Plus, back in 2005 when LSU lost a 21-0 lead to UT Chavis was the defensive coordinator. And then this past season against Florida. Yes, they lost 30-6, but for a lot of that game UT did hang with the Gators. Why? Not because of the Vol offense but because of Chavis's crew. Now I understand people will say it was 20-0 at the half, but remember UT turned it over a couple times deep in UF territory. Not the defense's fault. That game really showed how much the UT offense sucked.
There are more reasons but I've typed enough and my thumbs hurt.
A lot of times when a team has a lousy offense and a good defense the defensive statistics will suffer. Because if you are constantly having 3 and outs on offense the D will get worn down and will give up points.
The reason I see Chavis as a good hire is because ever since UT's decline in recent years it's always seemed that still the Vols had a good defense. Plus, back in 2005 when LSU lost a 21-0 lead to UT Chavis was the defensive coordinator. And then this past season against Florida. Yes, they lost 30-6, but for a lot of that game UT did hang with the Gators. Why? Not because of the Vol offense but because of Chavis's crew. Now I understand people will say it was 20-0 at the half, but remember UT turned it over a couple times deep in UF territory. Not the defense's fault. That game really showed how much the UT offense sucked.
There are more reasons but I've typed enough and my thumbs hurt.
Posted on 5/14/09 at 1:35 am to batteman
Offense was horrible. They played defense 50 minutes per game.
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