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Started By
Message
Kentucky EMS unit face losing their licenses for saving a snakebitten man’s life
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:26 am
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:26 am
WKYT
WKYT (follow-up article)
Governmental regulation overreach strikes again in a ridiculous case where a Kentucky EMS team saved a man’s life when he was bitten by a snake, but now face losing their licenses because, “they were not authorized to administer antivenom” according to a recently instituted rule that antivenom can only be administered by “wilderness paramedics.”
So basically they were supposed to let the man die because they didn’t have the government’s permission to save his life. The hearing is set for tomorrow to see if they get to keep their jobs.
WKYT (follow-up article)
Governmental regulation overreach strikes again in a ridiculous case where a Kentucky EMS team saved a man’s life when he was bitten by a snake, but now face losing their licenses because, “they were not authorized to administer antivenom” according to a recently instituted rule that antivenom can only be administered by “wilderness paramedics.”
quote:
James Harrison, the director of the Kentucky Reptile Zoo, was bitten by a highly venomous Jameson’s Mamba while working.
Harrison got the antivenom he needed to live, which they had there at the zoo, but he still spent days recovering in the ICU.
quote:
“The victim had told us that we needed to administer the antivenom as soon as possible, and if not, the first stages are paralysis, second stage was respiratory arrest, third stage was cardiac arrest, then he said, ‘I’m going to die,’” Barnes said. Barnes said they were unable to reach their EMS director, but they did speak with medical staff at Clark Regional Medical Center. While they were waiting for a helicopter to take Harrison to UK hospital, they gave him the antivenom.
quote:
Barnes said he later learned KBEMS’ policy changed two years ago, and that only wilderness paramedics can administer antivenom now.
“If we had sat there and let him die, then we would have been morally and ethically responsible, and we could have been criminally charged for his death,” Barnes said.
That’s why Barnes, who has his paramedic’s license, and other EMS workers will go before KBEMS to argue why they should keep their licenses.
“If it came down today, I would do the same thing. You cannot put a price on a person’s life,” Barnes said.
quote:
Jeff Thurman, a member of the board’s medical oversight committee, is sharing why guidelines are put in place for EMS workers.
“From my perspective, the focus shouldn’t necessarily be on the outcome, its on why the scope of practice exists, why it protects the public, and why we don’t want practitioners at any level, whether it be EMT, paramedic, nurse, physician, doing things that they haven’t been properly vetted to do,” he said.
Thurman said while he’s not a legal professional, he does not see why an EMS worker would be held accountable for someone dying while practicing their scope of care, unless negligence was a factor.
So basically they were supposed to let the man die because they didn’t have the government’s permission to save his life. The hearing is set for tomorrow to see if they get to keep their jobs.
37
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:29 am to Goombaw
quote:
because they didn’t have the government’s permission to save his life
You'd be surprised how many states don't allow EMTs or Paramedics to push drugs...
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:31 am to Goombaw
First thing that comes to mind is; does Kentucky have a good Samaritans law, (law stating you can not be charged if it can be proven that you are acting in the best interest of the person in need) , second, would trained EMS personnel be covered under said law if it exists?
Lastly, anyone who charges these medics should be fired immediately.
Lastly, anyone who charges these medics should be fired immediately.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:32 am to Goombaw
If they had the anti-venom at the zoo then why didn’t the snakebite victim just give it to himself?
This post was edited on 9/29/25 at 8:33 am
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:32 am to Goombaw
quote:
“From my perspective, the focus shouldn’t necessarily be on the outcome, its on why the scope of practice exists, why it protects the public, and why we don’t want practitioners at any level, whether it be EMT, paramedic, nurse, physician, doing things that they haven’t been properly vetted to do,” he said."
This is why society is going into the dumpster. People have become more concerned about the "rules", than focusing on a life being saved.
This post was edited on 9/29/25 at 8:33 am
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:34 am to Goombaw
Regulations are for everyone’s safety.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:34 am to TheFolker
quote:
why didn’t the snakebite victim just give it to himself?
It says first stage of the bite is paralysis, maybe he couldn’t.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:36 am to Goombaw
quote:
Barnes said they were unable to reach their EMS director, but they did speak with medical staff at Clark Regional Medical Center.
As a retired medic, if they did in fact get permission from a doctor, this should go a long way in helping their case.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:43 am to Kracka
Yeah, the quote from the board member about the EMS team not being held liable if the man died scared me. Like that’s what really matters here, the rules are obeyed and it doesn’t matter if he dies, they wouldn’t be held responsible.
If my child gets bitten by a copperhead out in my yard, I want the antivenom administered ASAP, regardless of the government’s approval. The thought of trained medical professionals with the necessary lifesaving antidote, standing around waiting on approval to administer it while my child dies is something I can’t imagine. I think I would physically fight someone.
If my child gets bitten by a copperhead out in my yard, I want the antivenom administered ASAP, regardless of the government’s approval. The thought of trained medical professionals with the necessary lifesaving antidote, standing around waiting on approval to administer it while my child dies is something I can’t imagine. I think I would physically fight someone.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:45 am to Goombaw
quote:
“From my perspective, the focus shouldn’t necessarily be on the outcome, its on why the scope of practice exists, why it protects the public, and why we don’t want practitioners at any level, whether it be EMT, paramedic, nurse, physician, doing things that they haven’t been properly vetted to do,” he said.
Frick this guy
The zoo dude was facing imminent death
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:47 am to Goombaw
quote:
Jeff Thurman, a member of the board’s medical oversight committee, is sharing why guidelines are put in place for EMS workers.
“From my perspective, the focus shouldn’t necessarily be on the outcome
quote:
Barnes said he later learned KBEMS’ policy changed two years ago, and that only wilderness paramedics can administer antivenom now.
This Jeff Thurman?
quote:
Emergency Medicine Physician, EMS Physician, Wilderness Medicine Physician
***EDIT to add licenses & cert information***
quote:
Licenses & certifications
Wilderness Medical Society
Diploma in Mountain Medicine
Issued Jul 2023
This post was edited on 9/29/25 at 11:54 am
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:48 am to Goombaw
This falls into that category of professionally ethically wrong, but morally right.
Administering the drug without a license goes against the bureaucratic standards of ethics, but letting a man die because of those bureaucratic standards is unacceptable.
They did the right thing and if they lose their jobs or license because of it, it's a travesty. I don't see any court siding against them.
Administering the drug without a license goes against the bureaucratic standards of ethics, but letting a man die because of those bureaucratic standards is unacceptable.
They did the right thing and if they lose their jobs or license because of it, it's a travesty. I don't see any court siding against them.
This post was edited on 9/29/25 at 8:51 am
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:49 am to Goombaw
Absolutely asinine.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:54 am to Snipe
quote:
First thing that comes to mind is; does Kentucky have a good Samaritans law,
Yes, we do.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:54 am to Goombaw
The legal system has done as much as anything else to frick up this country.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:54 am to Bard
Wow… wonder how much money Jeff has made by making his job extra super special.
“Put down that water hose! Only firefighters can put out fires!!”
“Who says?”
“The… firefighters.”
“Put down that water hose! Only firefighters can put out fires!!”
“Who says?”
“The… firefighters.”
Posted on 9/29/25 at 9:03 am to Goombaw
quote:
If my child gets bitten by a copperhead out in my yard
I don't think any of the snakes in the deep south are going to cause immediate death. You have ample time to get to an ER. Your kid screaming would probably stay with you the rest of your life but the survival chances are very good . The big majority of snakebite deaths in the US involve snake handling churches and most of the rest are the other weirdos who keep exotic venomous snakes as pets. The snake in the OP was some sort of African mamba. Your kid isn't likely to encounter that in your yard. Now if you're out hiking and get bit three hours from your car and have no choice but to hobble out - that might be a problem but even that rarely results in death
This post was edited on 9/29/25 at 1:36 pm
Posted on 9/29/25 at 9:06 am to Goombaw
Kentucky.... Get rid of your lib governor
Posted on 9/29/25 at 9:13 am to Goombaw
Society is so full of wimps. In 1990 I witnessed Randy Savage bitten by a Cobra and he didn't even miss his next match.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 9:19 am to JackieTreehorn
Oh, I've seen people bit and refuse to go to the ER because they had an unpaid speeding ticket. More than once. You could literally see the ankle swelling but they all lived. Those sandbars north of Bastrop were snakebite central. Idiot central, too. Tough idiots though.
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