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Started By
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How do commercial real estate landlords make money if tenants can’t afford the lease?
Posted on 6/4/25 at 7:43 am
Posted on 6/4/25 at 7:43 am
Story popped up in the Birmingham area that Post Office Pies - a fairly popular and nationally recognized pizza restaurant - decided to close after the lease renewal called for $15k/month.
I’m not even sure what that $15k covers or why it would need to be that expensive.
But if the landlord prices out a successful business, how does that make the landlord money? Just seems like a strange strategy to keep increasing rent until businesses can’t afford to be there. Apparently this is a common practice though.
I’m not even sure what that $15k covers or why it would need to be that expensive.
But if the landlord prices out a successful business, how does that make the landlord money? Just seems like a strange strategy to keep increasing rent until businesses can’t afford to be there. Apparently this is a common practice though.
Posted on 6/4/25 at 7:49 am to StringedInstruments
Not all commercial real estate landlords are intelligent. Interest rates have gone up and that has hurt a lot of CE landlords since a lot of large CE loans are refi'd every 4/5 years. So they have to raise rents to cover their payments, but if tenants cant pay then they are screwed.
Posted on 6/4/25 at 7:51 am to StringedInstruments
I just read the article and it really seems more like the owner just wants out and this made a good story. He already moved away from BHM.
To answer your question, $15,000 seems like a lot to you and I but this is Mountain Brook. One of the richest town in the SE.
The landlord will have no problem finding a renter.
To answer your question, $15,000 seems like a lot to you and I but this is Mountain Brook. One of the richest town in the SE.
The landlord will have no problem finding a renter.
Posted on 6/4/25 at 8:10 am to StringedInstruments
There’s been stories for years about empty storefronts in nice areas of NYC. It’s more profitable to keep inventory down and rent half your property at full price than all of it at a discount. There’s also other obscure business incentives if it’s held out of commerce.
Posted on 6/4/25 at 8:37 am to StringedInstruments
It warms my heart when I see a landlord get greedy and run off a successful business by jacking up the rent, only to have the space sit empty for years, while the former tenant opens elsewhere and keeps going.
A commercial firm rented prime space in a building for decades until the landlord jacked the rent up at the same time area rents were falling. I guess the landlord thought the tenant would pay rather than go to the expense and trouble of moving. But the tenant did move, the space has sat empty for years, and the landlord is on the verge of collapse.
A commercial firm rented prime space in a building for decades until the landlord jacked the rent up at the same time area rents were falling. I guess the landlord thought the tenant would pay rather than go to the expense and trouble of moving. But the tenant did move, the space has sat empty for years, and the landlord is on the verge of collapse.
Posted on 6/4/25 at 9:14 am to Twenty 49
So if you crunch the numbers based on a few assumptions:
$15,000 per month @ 12 months = $180,000 per yr
Space is roughly 5,400 SF which brings that to ~$34 psf.
I'm assuming its a triple net deal and CAM, insurance, and taxes are probably in the $8 per month range.
Their base rent with those assumptions is $26 psf which isn't to bad given that location and it being a corner in the development.
Those deals usually have a 3-5% bump in rent every five years so their rent probably started around $23 ish per sf.
Based on what I see for retail and restaurants in shopping centers of that quality that sounds about right.
Also remember that these tenants sign 10-15 yr leases that show the rent bumps so it does fall on the tenant to expect those rent bumps. Its not like its unexpected.
I don't know the details on the development but if its been traded a few times over the years who knows what kind of returns were promised to investors.
$15,000 per month @ 12 months = $180,000 per yr
Space is roughly 5,400 SF which brings that to ~$34 psf.
I'm assuming its a triple net deal and CAM, insurance, and taxes are probably in the $8 per month range.
Their base rent with those assumptions is $26 psf which isn't to bad given that location and it being a corner in the development.
Those deals usually have a 3-5% bump in rent every five years so their rent probably started around $23 ish per sf.
Based on what I see for retail and restaurants in shopping centers of that quality that sounds about right.
Also remember that these tenants sign 10-15 yr leases that show the rent bumps so it does fall on the tenant to expect those rent bumps. Its not like its unexpected.
I don't know the details on the development but if its been traded a few times over the years who knows what kind of returns were promised to investors.
Posted on 6/4/25 at 9:50 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
I’m not even sure what that $15k covers or why it would need to be that expensive.
Typically has to cover the building space, property taxes, exterior maintenance, insurance for the structure and landlord's liability.
quote:On the flip side, the reason for the rent hike probably has a lot to do with an increase in the landlord's expenses. Increased cost for insurance and property taxes. Higher cost for maintenance and repairs for the things the landlord is responsible for. Commercial real estate loans generally have to be refinanced every 5 years or so, so now you're having covid era CRE loans maturing and having to be refinanced at interest rates that are twice as high as they previously were.
But if the landlord prices out a successful business, how does that make the landlord money? Just seems like a strange strategy to keep increasing rent until businesses can’t afford to be there. Apparently this is a common practice though.
Another factor could be that the area that the property is located in has seen a boom in value, so the rent hike on the lease renewal is just bringing it in line with the current market rate for the area.
Sometimes it may be to the landlord's benefit in the long run to let an existing tenant leave, even if the property has to sit vacant for a few months until he finds another tenant...if it means the new tenant will be paying full market rent compared to giving a discounted rate to try to keep the old tenant from leaving. CRE leases are usually multi-year, so if he gives a discount rate to keep the existing tenant, then the landlord is probably locked into that agreement for a while.
Posted on 6/4/25 at 11:39 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
I’m not even sure what that $15k covers or why it would need to be that expensive.
If you know this particular real estate you understand. And this pizza place has been sucking wind as best I can tell. They already closed their location in Avondale. Someone else will pay this rent.
Posted on 6/4/25 at 11:46 am to SloaneRanger
If a 30% rent hike breaks the biz then the biz was not successful in the first place.
Posted on 6/4/25 at 11:59 am to I Love Bama
I just can’t imagine how much a pizza place would need to make to generate a profit. Considering upkeep, salaries/wages, marketing, insurance, etc. Tack on $180k/year just in rent?
A $1 million per year pizza joint would need to average $2700/day every day. That’s a lot of pizzas.
A $1 million per year pizza joint would need to average $2700/day every day. That’s a lot of pizzas.
Posted on 6/5/25 at 8:09 am to StringedInstruments
I work walking distance from Post Office Pies. That monthly rent sounds about right for the area. Rich area and that certain spot is pretty busy. It’s a really nice building with a lot going on around it.
That being said, I have eaten there recently and the pizza was absolute dog shite. Floppy pizza and they go heavy on the garlic. Not many people in there too and I picked a pizza up around 6 PM when I would think it would be busy. And I’m no pizza snob, I’ll eat it all.
Davenports is not too far in the same area and is far better. Been around since the 80’s (someone correct me if I’m wrong, it could be older).
That being said, I have eaten there recently and the pizza was absolute dog shite. Floppy pizza and they go heavy on the garlic. Not many people in there too and I picked a pizza up around 6 PM when I would think it would be busy. And I’m no pizza snob, I’ll eat it all.
Davenports is not too far in the same area and is far better. Been around since the 80’s (someone correct me if I’m wrong, it could be older).
Posted on 6/5/25 at 9:45 am to I Love Bama
quote:
If a 30% rent hike breaks the biz then the biz was not successful in the first place.
Havent seen a more tone deaf response on the MB in a while, thanks
For reference, restaurant margins are usually pretty tight. Many restaurants couldn't survive with a 30% price hike in their rent overnight without doing some major changes. They would have to raise their menu prices pretty substantially to cover that more than likely. Facilities cost is a pretty high amount for most restaurants on their P&L.
It wouldnt be uncommon for faculties cost to range between 10-20% of their top line revenue in a given month.
This post was edited on 6/5/25 at 9:47 am
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