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Message
How Do You Explain Trump's Only Real Major L So Far?
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:18 pm
In not abandoning Ukraine, especially after being shown by Ukraine & Zelensky at every turn that they will not make a peace deal, and not exploring clear invitations from Russia to not only pursue normalizing relations but also opportunities for potential economic deals?
Ukraine under Zelensky, fully backed by the EU who are also hellbent on continuing this war, along with facing internal pressure from extremists in the Ukrainian administration & military, will never sign a peace deal. And they've proved it time after time. They'll keep this going until Russia is replaying the Battle of Berlin with Zelensky hunkered down in a bunker snorting coke, if the Europeans don't pull him out first.
I'm not pro-Russia, if anything I feel about as ambivalent as to what happens in Ukraine as I am in Gaza, but when you have Ukraine, one of the most corrupt countries and political parasites on the planet on one hand, along with war-mongering Europeans who also tell us straight to our face that we're not really allies, and then you have Russia, who we don't have to be best friends with but actually know how to deal with on a bilateral level, I know who I'd pick. Or hell, pick neither and just pull out of Ukraine and tell them to enjoy the war. Do that.
Trump should have been listening to Witkoff this entire time instead of Kellogg.
And, while I'm thinking about it, think about how much more Trump could have accomplished domestically or in other international arenas by this point if he hadn't diverted so much time and energy to Ukraine.
Ukraine under Zelensky, fully backed by the EU who are also hellbent on continuing this war, along with facing internal pressure from extremists in the Ukrainian administration & military, will never sign a peace deal. And they've proved it time after time. They'll keep this going until Russia is replaying the Battle of Berlin with Zelensky hunkered down in a bunker snorting coke, if the Europeans don't pull him out first.
I'm not pro-Russia, if anything I feel about as ambivalent as to what happens in Ukraine as I am in Gaza, but when you have Ukraine, one of the most corrupt countries and political parasites on the planet on one hand, along with war-mongering Europeans who also tell us straight to our face that we're not really allies, and then you have Russia, who we don't have to be best friends with but actually know how to deal with on a bilateral level, I know who I'd pick. Or hell, pick neither and just pull out of Ukraine and tell them to enjoy the war. Do that.
Trump should have been listening to Witkoff this entire time instead of Kellogg.
And, while I'm thinking about it, think about how much more Trump could have accomplished domestically or in other international arenas by this point if he hadn't diverted so much time and energy to Ukraine.
9
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:21 pm to Tom288
You call yesterday and the tariff "deal" winning?
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:21 pm to Tom288
quote:
Trump's Only Real Major L
So Trump gets the L here because he has not pulled out of Ukraine fully?
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:23 pm to KiwiHead
Just counting wins here.
The enemies will say enough on the other stuff as far as I am concerned.
The enemies will say enough on the other stuff as far as I am concerned.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:23 pm to The Maj
I would have liked to see the Ukraine Russia war ended by now as well… but I also understand there’s bigger things at play.
Trump has to work with both countries here as he has goals to weaken China, and if he beats up on Russia too much, he loses leverage with China by letting Russia cozy up more with them.
Also he needs to maintain leverage over Ukraine if we ever hope to recoup any of the billions we sent over there.
It’s very very complicated.
Trump has to work with both countries here as he has goals to weaken China, and if he beats up on Russia too much, he loses leverage with China by letting Russia cozy up more with them.
Also he needs to maintain leverage over Ukraine if we ever hope to recoup any of the billions we sent over there.
It’s very very complicated.
This post was edited on 5/13/25 at 12:24 pm
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:25 pm to Tom288
You’re thinking checkers, not chess.
Ukraine is allowing us to systematically degrade Russia, a near-peer, aspiring hegemon, without the loss of a single US soldier.
Who the frick cares about Zelensky?
Ukraine is allowing us to systematically degrade Russia, a near-peer, aspiring hegemon, without the loss of a single US soldier.
Who the frick cares about Zelensky?
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:27 pm to Tom288
I don't consider the Ukraine war a loss for Trump.
The two sides are at least discussing the possibility of a cease fire.
I do think Trump misjudged the lil dictator. Trump probably assumed the guy was tired of seeing his country and people dying for nothing.
Honest mistake, not a loss. Trump didn't start the war or instigate it and make it worse.
That was Biden.
The two sides are at least discussing the possibility of a cease fire.
I do think Trump misjudged the lil dictator. Trump probably assumed the guy was tired of seeing his country and people dying for nothing.
Honest mistake, not a loss. Trump didn't start the war or instigate it and make it worse.
That was Biden.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:28 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
You call yesterday and the tariff "deal" winning?
Biggest, but yesterday at least has a 90 day limit. When Istanbul falls through and Trump puts sanctions on Russia this is no longer Biden's war, it's Trumps. Also, the two are linked. You normalize relations with Russia, maybe strike an economic deal with them, pull them away from China, & now China is even further isolated while we let tariffs do its thing.
But I agree, I'm not happy with the tariff deal either.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:29 pm to The Maj
quote:
So Trump gets the L here because he has not pulled out of Ukraine fully?
LMAO, umm yeah. Who else is in charge of pulling the US out of it? Think Vance should tell Trump, "Hey, I've got this one."
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:29 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
tariff "deal" winning
Let's see: no one paid us shite, we paid double to export many of our goods. We don't do that anymore. How is that NOT WINNING?!
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:30 pm to lake chuck fan
Little Marco and Witkoff have given it a good effort. Z's life/livelihood depend on this thing going forever. And to his defense, he's probably still answering to Azov nazis. We need to cut them off.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:34 pm to KiwiHead
You’ll melt regardless of what Trump does
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:34 pm to Tom288
You can’t negotiate with coke heads. Trump should know better
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:35 pm to Tom288
quote:
Who else is in charge of pulling the US out of it?
So your answer is pull out, don't look back, should have been done day 1?
Little more complicated than that sport but keep playing....
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:35 pm to Tom288
Campaigning is one thing, but when you get the reins of government reality sets in. Trump is faced with the reality that Russia is trying to reconstitute an empire, and that is against American interests. Ukraine is not a bunch of choir boys either, no country is. But Ukraine’s objection to a peace deal is common sense: they must have a guarantee that Russia will keep their end of the deal and not invade again 10 years later.
Ukraine is being asked to eat a giant shite sandwich, and they know they have to do it in order to retain the balance of their country. But they are not going to eat that shite sandwich AND lose the rest of their country. And the idea that we can just waltz away is batty. We can insist that Europe take over our role, but that has to be transitioned.
Ukraine is being asked to eat a giant shite sandwich, and they know they have to do it in order to retain the balance of their country. But they are not going to eat that shite sandwich AND lose the rest of their country. And the idea that we can just waltz away is batty. We can insist that Europe take over our role, but that has to be transitioned.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:35 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
Ukraine is allowing us to systematically degrade Russia, a near-peer, aspiring hegemon, without the loss of a single US soldier.
Their in a full war-time economy which is impervious to the sanctions either we, or the Europeans, put on it, all while not only constantly growing their military via recruitment but increasing the number of battle-hardened units they have, which they have been able to successfully cycle in and out of rotation for quite a while now. They're getting experience facing the role of drone combat in urban war. And their people are united on wanting to finish this war to completion. And the losses that they're taking, are able to be sustained and replenished. And let's not forget that the US & European military commands were essentially running most of the Ukrainain operations out of Germany. So, via proxy, Russia has first hand experience not only facing, but beating Western military strategy.
So, their economy is fine. Their army is only growing in strength, they have complete initiative all across the front, they've beaten Western military leadership strategically, on the ground in an actual major war, and you're telling me we're systematically degrading Russia? All we've done is make them vastly stronger and more competent.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:37 pm to Tom288
It's way too early to declare a lot of these Ws and Ls, but there are a few:
Picking Vance is a clear W.
There are a handful of minor players that are clear Ls (but not impactful)
Trade/Tariffs are huge TBDs.
I think Russia/Ukraine is the same.
DOGE is TBD on meaningful impacts, unless you want to count USAID (I'm not sure that's really attributable to DOGE).
Big Ws on the race/gender EO fronts and clearing house on those things, which align with public sentiment.
Big W on the border
Picking Vance is a clear W.
There are a handful of minor players that are clear Ls (but not impactful)
Trade/Tariffs are huge TBDs.
I think Russia/Ukraine is the same.
DOGE is TBD on meaningful impacts, unless you want to count USAID (I'm not sure that's really attributable to DOGE).
Big Ws on the race/gender EO fronts and clearing house on those things, which align with public sentiment.
Big W on the border
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:41 pm to Penrod
quote:
Trump is faced with the reality that Russia is trying to reconstitute an empire
No, your entire premise is wrong. This is a war planned for and started by the US & EU using Ukraine as its proxy. Putin has been clear since his Munich speech about the threat of NATO expansion to Russian borders, and yet, NATO has constantly pushed East. In fact, they've been doing this since the 90s. Leading up to the war Russia made it abundantly clear, over and over, what their red lines were and that included Ukraine's entrance into NATO. So, what did the US & EU do, they started initiatives to grant Ukraine NATO membership, which would put NATO right on Russia's doorstep.
If Russia wanted to reconstitute their empire then they wouldn't have felt the need to repeatedly, over years, warn the West not to cross the line that they did. But the West kept pushing and pushing East, and finally Russia was in a position where they had to respond militarily. This is a war that the US & EU specifically wanted and they've lost it.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:43 pm to The Maj
quote:
So your answer is pull out, don't look back, should have been done day 1?
If you read my original post I specifically made it clear that pulling out of Ukraine should have been done after Zelensky & Ukraine repeatedly showed us that they have no interest in making a peace deal. So, we gave it multiple shots but it's long past due to have said goodbye to the little Goblin stooge over there.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 12:44 pm to Tom288
quote:
LMAO, umm yeah. Who else is in charge of pulling the US out of it? Think Vance should tell Trump, "Hey, I've got this one."
So he gets blamed for Biden/Dems mess, but also gets blamed if he pulls out of U, and has liberal clowns (like you) claim Putin best hi.?
Ukraine is on the democrats, period
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