Started By
Message

Defend a villain

Posted on 1/7/25 at 2:59 pm
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
155426 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 2:59 pm
I don't mean talk about a likeable villain...I mean literally defend one.

This can be in good fun and in jest, or it can be legit in that you think the movie/show's villain is actually not and got an unfair shake. Feel free to be as obnoxious and heavy-handed as you want in your argument, and in a sense this can also be somewhat of an "overanalyze" thread (as we've done several times before on here). And prepare to defend your answers with logic and argument.

Please name the movie/character before going into your argument. I have a couple in mind. I'll start:


The Karate Kid - John Lawrence

I'll start by adding that my stance on KK is well-documented on here, and I think it's legit arguable that Daniel Larusso is the true villain of this movie. So I'll start here.

Obviously John is somewhat of a trouble-maker in his past. But he makes the conscious decision to go from "ace degenerate" to "ex degenerate" his senior year, and wants to "make it work" and get his shite together. And in walks Daniel fricking Larusso, some smartass jerk from Jersey acting like he owns the place.

His long time, on-again-off-again girlfriend, Ali, is a total bitch with no regard for their history. When he tries to talk to her on the beach, she keeps turning the radio up trying to silence him and embarrass him in front of everybody. And what does Daniel do? Sticks his nose into someone else's business and horn in on someone else's girl. At one point we even see Ali's parents clearly have an established relationship with John...her mother dances with him at the country club, and her father (while dancing with her) asks something along the lines of "You two lovebirds fighting again?" There is very clearly still chemistry there to where even her parents think they are together. But that doesn't stop Daniel from trying over and over to bang her.

At one point at the Halloween dance, we see Daniel peek over the bathroom stall at John. For all he knows John could've been taking a shite. But let's ignore the obvious assholery of that...Daniel sees John trying to relax and roll a doobie on the toilet so that he can finally get a little rest and ease his mind of this new a-hole from Jersey trying to talk shite and steal his girlfriend constantly. What does Daniel do? He rigs a hose and turns the water onto John completely unprovoked. Then has the nerve to get mad when John chases him down and kicks his arse.

Then Miyagi and Daniel waltz into Cobra Kai and attempt to call a truce with Kreese and his students. And what does Daniel do the next time he sees John and his friends at school? He talks shite to them about their injuries (sustained when Miyagi kicked their asses, mind you....not him) and taunts them in front of a teacher. He even tries to sucker them into getting stuck hearing some boring arse lecture by the teacher while they are on break. So not only does Daniel get a grownup to intervene and get them to stop harassing him, he then turns around and harasses them the very next day. At one point John tells Daniel "You just couldn't leave well enough alone..." and boy was he right.

Then, in the All Valley tournament, Daniel isn't even correctly belted, and Miyagi has to literally steal a black belt to enter him into the tournament. Not only should this have resulted in a DQ, with John becoming the champion, but Miyagi should've been blacklisted for putting an unqualified kid in harm's way. I won't get into the specificity of the tournament, with different rules and shite seemingly in place for Daniel (see my thread linked above for further detail into that) in which John should have been the rightful champ. But even allowing that bullshite to stand, Daniel should have been DQ'd and the runner up should've been named champion: John Lawrence.



I'll do a separate post for my other one...

So, who you got?

ETA: Bonus points if you choose someone basically indefensible, but you make a solid case anyway.
This post was edited on 1/9/25 at 1:53 pm
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
119977 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:04 pm to


The man was the town hero simply looking after Belle who had been abducted and did God knows what to Belle, and Belle was ungrateful to have such a supportive and handsome suitor who would have provided for her.
Posted by DMagic
#ChowderPosse
Member since Aug 2010
49911 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:05 pm to
Gaston was just a cocky jerk and didn’t deserve to die. For all he knew the beast was a monster and he was an avid hunter.



God dammit landshark beat me


I’ll say Killmonger from Black Panther to stay with the theme
This post was edited on 1/7/25 at 3:09 pm
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
155426 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:05 pm to
Taken from an older thread I started a while back:

Toy Story 3 - Lotso

I can’t help but think that Lotso’s “rules” for new toys aren’t really that unreasonable. New toys at Sunnyside have to come in and pay their dues with the young kids in the Caterpillar Room and sort of “earn” their right to get thrown in with the older kids of the Butterfly Room who play less rough. But a lot of these toys are made for young kids anyway, so why is it such a problem that the kids play tough with them? They aren’t experimenting with them like Sid did in the first one.

And even in the end when Ken and Barbie are running things, the toys take breaks and rest from the young kids. Well they could’ve done that the entire time, even under Lotso. Seems like he would go for that idea.

Now obviously he is insane in the end, and pretty ruthless with how he treats the group with acting like a prison warden. But that was after they continuously ignored the set up at Sunnyside and broke the rules over and over (and escaped). So I’m not trying to defend his ultimate actions in the end (especially at the dump/incinerator). But at least initially, his intentions seem relatively reasonable. And it seems like most of the existing toys at Sunnyside should be mad at some uppity group waltzing in and expecting to be put in the Butterfly Room with no respect for how things work there.

Was Lotso obsessed with power? Sure. But he didn't turn insane until Andy's group of toys started trying to have things their own way and not respect the ways of Sunnyside or its inhabitants. After Andy's toys ignore ranks and sacrifices of others toys and refuse to play ball, Lotso was pushed and had to flex on them. Seems reasonable.

To me Lotso's system wasn't so much a dictatorship as it was more of a place that has a "every menial type of job ever" vibe to it. When you start a job at a grocery store, you begin by cleaning up the spills in the aisles and the vomit in the bathrooms and stocking shelves. You don't come in and immediately get to be head cashier or work in Electronics. You pay your dues like everyone else who came before you, and work your way up into the more desirable positions.

Also, not to excuse his behavior (but I know that's sort of what I am doing), but he was betrayed by his kid, Daisy (and her parents - more them than her, but still), when he was forgotten and then replaced. It's like an adult committing crimes that was molested as a child...it doesn't excuse the behavior obviously, but does possibly explain it.

Yes, this is sort of tongue in cheek a little bit, but all in all Lotso isn’t some insane dictator for the first half of the movie. Kids are rough on toys. That’s what they do. Andy’s toys were coddled and privileged because they were played with responsibly by Andy. And because of that they felt it wasn’t fair to be stuck with younger kids. But they are basically wrong.
This post was edited on 1/7/25 at 3:12 pm
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
155426 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:07 pm to
quote:

The man was the town hero simply looking after Belle who had been abducted and did God knows what to Belle, and Belle was ungrateful to have such a supportive and handsome suitor who would have provided for her.

I expected this one, and sort of from you as well. (and yes, I expect the same pushback on Lotso that I got from you a few years ago)

But yeah, Gaston was a narcissist for sure. But most of the things he did in that movie were completely reasonable, including wanting to help Belle SAVE HER frickING DAD FROM THE MONSTER THAT ABDUCTED HIM.
This post was edited on 1/7/25 at 3:09 pm
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
112385 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:10 pm to
Thanos was right
Posted by theGarnetWay
Washington, D.C.
Member since Mar 2010
27163 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:11 pm to
In before anyone says Thanos or Joker as if mass murder is a profound solution.

edit: There's always one.
This post was edited on 1/7/25 at 3:12 pm
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
155426 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:14 pm to
quote:

In before anyone says Thanos or Joker as if mass murder is a profound solution.

Does that really count as murder if they just go away (they clearly don't die)?

And Thanos, for all of his bullshite, was at least doing it for a seemingly decent underlying cause, and in the most fair way possible (half the population selected at random).

But I wish people would argue their points instead of just "Thanos was right." That's not an argument; it's simply a stated opinion.
Posted by theGarnetWay
Washington, D.C.
Member since Mar 2010
27163 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:18 pm to
quote:


Does that really count as murder if they just go away (they clearly don't die)?


Uh yeah. I'd say going away (for what was intended to be for eternity) equates to dying. Do you think there's any comfort in someone losing a loved one "Well, at least they just went away via dust."

Also, if something like that were to really happen there would be plenty of people that would actually die. Think about how many car wrecks, plane crashes, etc. would happen if half the population just disappeared at any given time and how many people that weren't dusted would get killed or maimed as collateral.

Politically, it could lead to untold power vacuums that could also leads to God knows what.
This post was edited on 1/7/25 at 3:22 pm
Posted by drizztiger
Deal With it!
Member since Mar 2007
44825 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:21 pm to
quote:

Do you think there's any comfort in someone losing a loved one "Well, at least they just went away via dust."
I’ve seen The Leftovers, so I’m going to say no.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
119977 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:21 pm to


Ozymandias saved the world from nuclear annihilation and he had to murder 15 million people in order to save the other six billion.
Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
75066 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:24 pm to
quote:

Thanos was right

A fan caught Brolin flat-footed recently when they asked him if the reason Thanos snapped away half of existence was because he had a genuine concern for the lack of resources, then why didn't he use the Infinity Gauntlet to double the resources in the universe?
Posted by TygerTyger
Houston
Member since Oct 2010
10735 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:25 pm to
Hans Gruber was doing everything he could to minimize fatalities with the bond heist at Nakatomi Plaza. He had everything under control and then John McClane had to show up as the fly in the ointment, Hans. The monkey in the wrench. The pain in the arse.
Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
75066 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:25 pm to
quote:

Politically, it could lead to untold power vacuums that could also leads to God knows what.

Hence the Flag Smashers' axe to grind.
Posted by nicholastiger
Member since Jan 2004
53873 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:27 pm to
Vader should have been allowed to rule the galaxy
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
119977 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:27 pm to


And not much of an explanation required, but Shere Khan was correct about everything that mankind represents. He’s not wrong about his hatred for humanity.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
112385 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:29 pm to
quote:

A fan caught Brolin flat-footed recently when they asked him if the reason Thanos snapped away half of existence was because he had a genuine concern for the lack of resources, then why didn't he use the Infinity Gauntlet to double the resources in the universe?


Lol

While that arguably would be workable on a universal scale, on a planetary scale that would be difficult.

For example, if 100% of your arable land was in cultivation for sustaining the population, how do you double that?
Posted by theGarnetWay
Washington, D.C.
Member since Mar 2010
27163 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:30 pm to
quote:

Hence the Flag Smashers' axe to grind.


And I'm glad that was at least explored a little bit. The movies (and the 'Thanos were right' crowd) made it seem like the only consequence to losing half the entire population all at once is that some people would be sad for a while...and that's it.
Posted by Funky Tide 8
Bayou Chico
Member since Feb 2009
55939 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:34 pm to
The lions in Ghost and the Darkness.

They are just living their lives as lions until colonizers come in and try and develop their habitat. Big cats are very territorial, so of course they'd naturally be up-in-arms and try and defend their territory, and get some hearty meals in the process.
This post was edited on 1/7/25 at 3:35 pm
Posted by Tangineck
Mandeville
Member since Nov 2017
2735 posts
Posted on 1/7/25 at 3:38 pm to
The wicked witch of the west in wizard of oz.

Sister is killed by Dorothy's house, then Dorothy steals her dead sisters slippers. She is righfully pissed off. Glinda the bitch steps in and causes chaos by instructing Dorothy to keep the slippers and not bothering to tell her the slippers can bring her home at any time. At any time the WWotW can murder the scarecrow and likely the lion but chooses not to and engages in scare tactics instead. Dorothy ends up murdering her as well in the end, as well as sending the mentally ill Wizard of Oz off to his likely death in a balloon and the bitch Glinda laughs it up and tells her she could have left at any time and laughs it up again.
first pageprev pagePage 1 of 8Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on X, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookXInstagram