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Why Should We Fight Wars for Ukraine and Israel?

Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:10 am
Posted by Seldom Seen
Member since Feb 2016
48737 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:10 am
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
66396 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:11 am to
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
79835 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:13 am to
We shouldn't fight for them.


But I have no problem selling them weapons.
Posted by EZE Tiger Fan
Member since Jul 2004
55424 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:16 am to
So Uniparty pols can get generationally wealthy.
Posted by Rex Feral
Member since Jan 2014
15905 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:18 am to
We shouldn't.
Posted by olemc999
At a blackjack table
Member since Oct 2010
15040 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:18 am to
Enlist for those globalist bankers young men.
Posted by SCLibertarian
Conway, South Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
40879 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:18 am to
"American credibility". As if we actually had any.
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
73087 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:22 am to
If you believe in biblical guidance and scripture, you have to be a staunch supporter of Israel, period.

The founding of the State of Israel in 1948 was in accordance with biblical prophecies transmitted through the Old Testament. The re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty in the Levant—the "Gathering of Israel"—is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.
Posted by OBReb6
Memphissippi
Member since Jul 2010
41553 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:24 am to
quote:

selling them weapons


Chortle
Posted by MyNameIsTokyo
Member since Oct 2024
46 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:48 am to
if Ukraine falls Putin will effectively have total control of worldwide semiconductor production. anything with a chip in it-computers, phones, cars, the entire modern world-would be up to him.

short version: lasers that make chips need highly purified neon, and Ukraine supplies up to 90% of that neon. this one company alone supplies 60.

as of now there is no way around this. we are trying to find one, thats what the CHIPS and Science Act is for, to bring semiconductor production home and never be in this position again. we're not there yet.

even if there was another way to purify the neon, Ukraine controls up to 70 percent of all neon gas production (this is different from highly purified neon), and Russia is the other 30.

for one second try to remember that you're an American and understand how dangerous this is.
This post was edited on 10/22/24 at 7:51 am
Posted by POTUS2024
Member since Nov 2022
20943 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 8:00 am to
quote:

If you believe in biblical guidance and scripture, you have to be a staunch supporter of Israel, period.

The founding of the State of Israel in 1948 was in accordance with biblical prophecies transmitted through the Old Testament. The re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty in the Levant—the "Gathering of Israel"—is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.


I don't think this is accurate.

The doctrine of Dispensationalism was invented in 19th-century England by an Anglican priest turned Brethren minister named John Nelson Darby. Darby was the first to create a systematic paradigm of Dispensationalism, which teaches that God acts in different ways at different times to administer His overall plan for the world. While this is built on earlier concepts that date all the way back to St. Irenaeus of Lyons in the 2nd century, Darby goes much further in systematizing this concept.

A key concept, unique to Darby, is that the prophecies of the Old Testament that speak of an eternal Israel, such as those found in Isaiah 60, require the physical re-establishment of the nation of Israel on earth, that this is separate from the establishment of the Church, and that this must happen before the “end times.” This idea was strongly advocated by Darby, who travelled much of continental Europe and North America to spread this idea. It has caught on in a number of Protestant circles, and is as good as Gospel for them: Israel must be re-established and fully recognized before Christ can return.

Darby separated the ideas of Fatherhood and Kingship in God, saying, “The same person may be king of a country, and father of a family; and this is the difference between God’s actings towards us and the Jews. Towards the church, it is the character of Father; towards the Jews, it is the character of Jehovah, the King.” (See “Israel’s Restoration: The Manner of Its Accomplishment,” in Collected Writings of J.N. Darby.)

Darby saw this in the many prophecies of the Old Testament, where kingship seems to always be applied to Israel, but salvation would be open to all. These kinds of prophecies exist all across the Old Testament in Isaiah, Daniel, Amos, the Psalms, and other places. He even used the words of Christ Himself to find assurance that the nation of Israel would be restored: ‘O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets…your house is forsaken and desolate…until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord’” (Mt 23:37-39). This prediction, delivered by Jesus Himself, gives us the assurance—so Darby thought—of the coming of Christ to restore Israel and to reign in her midst.

To explore such texts as this is outside of the scope of this particular article, but I would encourage anyone interested in Darby’s perspective to compare his writings to the passages he cites; and most importantly, to hear what the Fathers have to say concerning these prophecies, as there is no basis for this idea before Darby. The Scriptures do not teach it, and it is unknown to all the Fathers of the Church and even to the Protestant Reformers.

St. Paul declares the Church of Christ the New Israel. It has always been understood by all Christians—until Darby—that the Church is the continuation and fulfilment of the nation of Israel. The Holy Apostle speaks of the “Israel of God” (Gal 6:16) and tells us there is “ neither Jew nor Greek…but all are one in Christ Jesus”(Gal 3:18). In fact, the entire Epistle to the Galatians is an apology against the Judaizing heresy that St. Paul faced in the 1st century, explaining that the Body of Christ has become the New Israel, the Old Covenant is fulfilled, and the gates are now open to all. There is no meaningful distinction in the eyes of God between such categories as “Jew” or “Greek” (i.e., gentile), but are all one.

The idea of the Church of Christ being the fulfilment of Israel, or the New Israel of God, is also seen in the Fathers from antiquity. For example, St. Justin the Philosopher writes in the 2nd century, “…[T]hen is it Jacob the patriarch in whom the Gentiles and yourselves shall trust? Or is it not Christ? As, therefore, Christ is the Israel and the Jacob, even so we, who have been quarried out from the bowels of Christ, are the true Israelitic race” (Dialogue with Trypho, CXXXV).

Tertullian, writing in the late 2nd and early 3rd centuries, also sees this clearly in the Scriptures, from the very epistle we ourselves were just reading: “Now, if the Creator indeed promised that ‘the ancient things should pass away,’ to be superseded by a new course of things which should arise, whilst Christ marks the period of the separation when He says, ‘The law and the prophets were until John’” (Against Marcion; Book V, Ch. 2: “On The Epistle to the Galatians”).

The idea that there was some special, divine plan for the nation who had rejected Christ would be completely foreign and bizarre to any Christian who lived more than 200 years ago. This is a new, different teaching from all of Church history, a radical break from what has always been known to be true by Christians the world over. Many would say it is a “different opinion”—the literal meaning of the word heresy—from all of Christianity before it.

And yet, it has gained such traction that a large segment of Evangelicals in America accept as Gospel that which is foreign to 1800 years of all Christian teaching that preceded it.


Orthodox response to Christian Zionism
Posted by OBReb6
Memphissippi
Member since Jul 2010
41553 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 8:00 am to
Sounds like we need to send troops there immediately. Starting with you
This post was edited on 10/22/24 at 8:01 am
Posted by SDVTiger
Cabo San Lucas
Member since Nov 2011
93087 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 8:02 am to
quote:

if Ukraine falls Putin will effectively have total control of worldwide semiconductor production. anything with a chip in it-computers, phones, cars, the entire modern world-would be up to him.



Posted by NIH
Member since Aug 2008
119656 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 8:03 am to
We need to stop Putin now
Posted by Big Daddy Kayne
Member since May 2020
437 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 8:04 am to
you're not rightfully dividing the Bible. It can only be truly understood through a pretribulation, millenialist lens. Israel is God's prophetic timepiece.
Posted by OBReb6
Memphissippi
Member since Jul 2010
41553 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 8:07 am to
Provide the scriptures to prove your point
Posted by mudshuvl05
Member since Nov 2023
2981 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 8:08 am to
quote:

if Ukraine falls Putin will effectively have total control of worldwide semiconductor production. anything with a chip in it-computers, phones, cars, the entire modern world-would be up to him.
That sounds dire, I'm all in.

And since Ukraine can't and won't win, and no amount of funding from us will change that, the obvious next step is to send Americans in.

Somebody needs to step up and send the blood of their sons to fight for those semiconductors!
Posted by genuineLSUtiger
Nashville
Member since Sep 2005
77039 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 8:11 am to
quote:

If you believe in biblical guidance and scripture, you have to be a staunch supporter of Israel, period. The founding of the State of Israel in 1948 was in accordance with biblical prophecies transmitted through the Old Testament. The re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty in the Levant—the "Gathering of Israel"—is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.


All manipulated by Levite scribes back in the day. Along with the notion that the Jews are the “chosen people”.
Posted by lake chuck fan
Vinton
Member since Aug 2011
21190 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 8:12 am to
Ukraine, a hard no.
Israel is more complicated. I don't believe we should commit soldiers or freely give Israel weapons. I think it's ok to sell them weapons.
Israel is the sole democratic country in the ME, we should support them, we have common cultural ideas and they are our allies.
Posted by lake chuck fan
Vinton
Member since Aug 2011
21190 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 8:13 am to
quote:

you're not rightfully dividing the Bible. It can only be truly understood through a pretribulation, millenialist lens. Israel is God's prophetic timepiece.


True. God's chosen people. That's still holds true as verified by Paul in the New Testament.
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