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Ukraine’s ‘victory plan’ is delusional

Posted on 9/30/24 at 2:16 pm
Posted by djmed
Member since Aug 2020
3249 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 2:16 pm
Ukraine’s ‘victory plan’ is delusional


In the past two years the western establishment media has effectively obscured the reality on the ground in Ukraine. Only recently has it become clear to the public that the tales we’ve heard about Russia imploding due to “bad tactics” and “throwing bodies into the meat grinder” in exchange for irrelevant territory have all been a fantasy. The problem is, propagandists often end up believing their own propaganda and then they are caught completely by surprise down the road when reality slaps them in the face.


Russian offensive actions in the east have greatly accelerated and now in the south the vital city of Vuhledar is set to fall within a couple days (if it hasn’t already). Their attrition based strategy and artillery superiority have created a shield for small fast moving units to strike Ukraine’s trenches and fixed defenses, and their drone game has dramatically improved. This has led them to capture multiple towns and cities in the past three months, with their forces closing in on the key eastern operational base of Pokrovsk. If Pokrovsk falls, the entire east of Ukraine could easily fall.

Beyond the shift to attrition tactics, Russia is gaining territory quickly because Ukraine is low on manpower. No amount of NATO technology or weaponry is going to help this fundamental weakness. This is the reality in Ukraine; they are losing the war.

The western media is unable to gloss over the situation any longer, which means something dramatic will have to happen to change the course of the war in Ukraine’s favor. Their government is scrambling to initiate an October surprise in preparation for the US elections in November. The US runs NATO, and Ukraine is entirely dependent on US aid.



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The notion of a Ukrainian “Victory Plan” is by itself questionable given the circumstances, but what is reportedly contained in Vladimir Zelensky’s strategy seems to be a over-optimistic wish list relying heavily on escalation between NATO and Russia. In other words, the only way Ukraine can “win” is for NATO to engage in open warfare with the East.

LINK
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
63079 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 2:20 pm to
Posted by tide06
Member since Oct 2011
17241 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 2:20 pm to
The plan to change the trajectory was to use US long range missiles against Russia prior to the election to get NATO involved directly prior to Trump getting into office and brokering a peace deal.
This post was edited on 9/30/24 at 2:21 pm
Posted by FreddieMac
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2010
24553 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 2:22 pm to
quote:


The plan to change the trajectory was to use US long range missiles against Russia prior to the election to get NATO involved directly prior to Trump getting into office and brokering a peace deal.


We should have never given those missiles to a grifter, it was stupid.
Posted by Buryl
Member since Sep 2016
986 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 2:24 pm to
Forget Ukraine. Russia probably won’t make any sincere effort to negotiate until well after the US elections.
I don’t think anyone knows how a Trump victory will affect US support of Ukraine.
Also, the fact that this thing is still ongoing after 2.5 years is, in itself, a loss for Russia.
This post was edited on 9/30/24 at 2:26 pm
Posted by lake chuck fan
westlake
Member since Aug 2011
18786 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 2:24 pm to
There has NEVER been a defined "victory plan".
If there was one that I missed, it's impossible without NATO/US troops and military.

The US has no plan to ever do that. This is all a bluff by America. They want to continue going this direction, pumping up the profits of the MIC.
The US has been lucky that Putin has been so tolerant and patient. Our leadership gives zero fricks about what's best for this nation, they only care about the money poured in by those who profit from it.
Posted by C
Houston
Member since Dec 2007
28031 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 2:25 pm to
My guess is Ukraine will attack Poland or Germany and try to blame it on russia
Posted by lake chuck fan
westlake
Member since Aug 2011
18786 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 2:29 pm to
quote:

I don’t think anyone knows how a Trump victory will affect US support of Ukraine.


What are you saying? Of course we do!! Trump has already said this is a stupid and unnecessary war! If Trump wins this war is done, over. Ukraine will lose all they have lost and Russia will retain the Russian speaking parts of Ukraine.
Ohhhhhhhh, with a written guarantee that Ukraine will not be part of NATO.

If Ukraine would have agreed two weeks after the war started, they could have had much better terms. Zylenski is as ignorant as the rest of the folks that supported this insanity.
Posted by SloaneRanger
Upper Hurstville
Member since Jan 2014
11037 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 2:36 pm to
There is no victory plan and never has been. Ukraine will not be regaining its lost territory. The longer this war goes on, the worse things get for Ukraine.

Oh, how are those F16s working out? Last I heard, at least 5 have been destroyed. With 1 American instructor killed.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
40430 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 2:36 pm to
quote:

In the past two years the western establishment media has effectively obscured the reality on the ground in Ukraine. Only recently has it become clear to the public that the tales we’ve heard about Russia imploding due to “bad tactics” and “throwing bodies into the meat grinder” in exchange for irrelevant territory have all been a fantasy. The problem is, propagandists often end up believing their own propaganda and then they are caught completely by surprise down the road when reality slaps them in the face.


Russia had ample time to plan their special operation. They launched it in February of 2022. It has been two years and seven months since then. What is taking Russia so long?

You say it’s not bad tactics. You say it’s not because Russian units are imploding. So why was Russia pushed back and why can’t the finish Ukraine off?[

quote]Beyond the shift to attrition tactics, Russia is gaining territory quickly because Ukraine is low on manpower[/quote]

Please define quickly. Yes, Russia had gained some ground, but I wouldn’t say it’s quickly.

And no I don’t see Ukraine pushing Russia out of Ukraine, but I don’t see anything that indicates that Russia is on the verge of winning either. I remember when Ukraine lost Bakmuth. Russia was supposed to break out then. Now it’s Pokrovst that is the key to everything? I don’t think so.

I believe this war is going to go on.
Posted by LSUnation78
Northshore
Member since Aug 2012
13549 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 2:40 pm to
quote:

Ukraine will lose all they have lost and Russia will retain the Russian speaking parts of Ukraine. Ohhhhhhhh, with a written guarantee that Ukraine will not be part of NATO. If Ukraine would have agreed two weeks after the war started, they could have had much better terms.




No, the terms you laid out above is exactly what Putin was demanding then? What exactly do you think Russia was giving them to make the terms better then?

quote:

Zylenski is as ignorant as the rest of the folks that supported this insanity


Yea maybe, but you should probably stop trying to one-up them.


Posted by Lynxrufus2012
Central Kentucky
Member since Mar 2020
16663 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 2:45 pm to
Nobody wins in this situation. Russia has lost more in blood and treasure than the area is worth and can expect resistance for years. Ukraine is a wreck and a generation lost on the battlefield. Anyone talking about Ukraine winning is delusional. The best thing is peace and survival for both. Trump will bring that about and the war profiteers hate that.

Posted by Gee Grenouille
Bogalusa
Member since Jul 2018
6871 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 2:51 pm to
quote:

No amount of NATO technology or weaponry is going to help this fundamental weakness.


They’ll come for our sons soon.
Posted by PineyWoodsHog
Texas
Member since Sep 2021
2410 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 3:08 pm to
There was never a 'victory plan' as we know it. The plan all along has been to launder US tax dollars through Ukraine and back into the military industrial complex (and crooked politician's pockets), allow large foreign corporations to take over farming in the country, and more. In that way, they have been successful in their evil endeavors.
Posted by MemphisGuy
Germantown, TN
Member since Nov 2023
11120 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 3:16 pm to
quote:

There has NEVER been a defined "victory plan".


Sure there was. It was and has always been and will continue to be "Somebody come bail us out of this."
Posted by Lord of the Hogs
Member since Sep 2023
3570 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 3:39 pm to
Yeah, not to mention all the Leopard, Challenger, and Abrams tanks donated to Ukraine. The Russians have been destroying these “superior western tanks” for months now.
Posted by Lord of the Hogs
Member since Sep 2023
3570 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 3:43 pm to
Because Russia is slowly but surely taking strategic areas of Ukraine that the Ukraine army needs to keep fighting.

Think about all the weapons, ammunition, and equipment that Ukraine has been given, and Russia is still destroying all of it. If anything, Russian forces are underrated.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
40430 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 4:39 pm to
quote:

Because Russia is slowly but surely taking strategic areas of Ukraine that the Ukraine army needs to keep fighting.

Yes they are slowly taking territory.
Ukraine is still fighting.

quote:

Think about all the weapons, ammunition, and equipment that Ukraine has been given, and Russia is still destroying all of it. I


All if it? Ukraine is fighting back with something, right?

quote:

If anything, Russian forces are underrated.


Really?
Posted by lake chuck fan
westlake
Member since Aug 2011
18786 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 4:59 pm to
quote:


Yea maybe, but you should probably stop trying to one-up them


Huh????? What the frick are you attempting to say????
Two week in Zylenski was willing to negotiate with Russia. Biden said no.
Since then Ukraine ha lost territory and tens of thousands of soldiers and 30% of its population. Not to mention the bridges, buildings, and railroads that have been destroyed. The longer this goes, the more Ukraine loses, and nothing will change that fact!
Posted by LSUnation78
Northshore
Member since Aug 2012
13549 posts
Posted on 9/30/24 at 5:23 pm to
So your claim is that russia has more land now than two weeks in?





Ok, buddy.
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