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The underlying crime.

Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:02 pm
Posted by geauxkoo
Member since Oct 2021
1636 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:02 pm
So today we finally learned what the supposed "underlying crime" was, and it is that Trump violated campaign finance laws.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that particular law a federal law? And doesn't that mean that Alvin Bragg does not have the authority to even try the case in the first place?

Posted by David_DJS
Member since Aug 2005
21768 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:04 pm to
quote:

violated campaign finance laws.

Did they bother to disclose exactly what campaign finance laws?
Posted by Houag80
Member since Jul 2019
17832 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:05 pm to
No they did not.
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
25036 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:09 pm to
The FEC didn't see a problem nor did federal prosecutors, but Alvin Bragg conjured up a phantom to hang his show trial on to get Trump.

Those who have violated Trump's constitution and civil rights under the color of law should go to jail.
Posted by I20goon
about 7mi down a dirt road
Member since Aug 2013
19014 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:19 pm to
The jury gets to pick one of three....

1. Violation of fed campaign finance laws
2. Violation of ny state election laws
3. Fed tax code Violation

The kicker is as long as they pick one, any one, individually, they can proceed
Posted by Sofaking2
Member since Apr 2023
19350 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:25 pm to
Mean tweets
Posted by bamadontcare
Member since Jun 2013
3561 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:29 pm to
Deep State stacked

Is Trump fricked OR does he have a trick up his sleeve?

Let’s stay tuned in to see.
Posted by David_DJS
Member since Aug 2005
21768 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:33 pm to
quote:

The jury gets to pick one of three....

1. Violation of fed campaign finance laws
2. Violation of ny state election laws
3. Fed tax code Violation


I don't mean to belabor the point, but did the prosecutors specify which of the fed campaign laws or NY election laws or fed tax code is the underlying crime?
Posted by David_DJS
Member since Aug 2005
21768 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:33 pm to
quote:

No they did not.

Shocking
Posted by I20goon
about 7mi down a dirt road
Member since Aug 2013
19014 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:40 pm to
quote:

I don't mean to belabor the point, but did the prosecutors specify which of the fed campaign laws or NY election laws or fed tax code is the underlying crime?
nope. He was not charged with any of those.

The instructions to the jury stated as long as they believed at least one of those 3 are what he was trying to hide then the other 34 charges are true and felonies

What they are saying is that he successfully hid them so they can't find the evidence so use that evidence to convict him
Posted by dafif
Member since Jan 2019
7876 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:44 pm to
quote:

1. Violation of fed campaign finance laws 2. Violation of ny state election laws 3. Fed tax code Violation


NY can't try someone for fed campaign laws and fed tax code.

Only violation of ny election laws.

Explain please how a jury or a prosecutor gets to suggest Trump violated fed tax laws?
Posted by geauxkoo
Member since Oct 2021
1636 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:48 pm to
It's my understanding that if the violations occurs in local state elections they use the state election laws.

If the violation occurs for national elections they use federal campaign laws.

In this case, since he was running for president it would be a federal offense, right?
Posted by David_DJS
Member since Aug 2005
21768 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 9:00 pm to
quote:

In this case, since he was running for president it would be a federal offense, right?

You'd think, but then again it seems as though there doesn't have to be a specific law he's accused of violating because he's Trump. And like the other poster pointed out, the evidence that he covered up the commission of some unspecified crime is that they can't find any evidence he did anything wrong.

What a f'n legal shitshow.
Posted by I20goon
about 7mi down a dirt road
Member since Aug 2013
19014 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 9:01 pm to
quote:

NY can't try someone for fed campaign laws and fed tax code.

Only violation of ny election laws.
they aren't. It isn't on the charge sheet, part 9f the indictment, or evidence presented by the prosecution.
quote:

Explain please how a jury or a prosecutor gets to suggest Trump violated fed tax laws?
How? An 8ndictment with Brady violations, a Marxist prosecutor with help from the white house, and a judge who doesn't mind allowing double-digit reversible errors.

The appeal doesn't matter. All thar matters is they be able to call Trump a felon between now and Nov 5th. It's typical Marxist end justifies the means.
Posted by TigerTattle
Out of Town
Member since Sep 2007
6686 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 9:18 pm to
Don't know if she's correct, but Megan Kelly on her podcast that it's NY law Section 17-152,

eta: any two or more persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means



eta2: (sorry, rough day) YouTube
This post was edited on 5/29/24 at 9:28 pm
Posted by tigerpimpbot
Chairman of the Pool Board
Member since Nov 2011
68756 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 9:18 pm to
I’m interested to hear SFP’s 14th amendment due process analysis of this. I’m not joking or being facetious. Genuinely curious since he practices criminal law and I do not.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
112282 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 9:23 pm to
Hence, why Merchan barred the defense's federal election law expert
Posted by David_DJS
Member since Aug 2005
21768 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 9:26 pm to
quote:

Don't know if she's correct, but Megan Kelly on her podcast that it's NY law Section 17-152,

eta: any two or more persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means

Thanks for that.

I'm no lawyer, but that doesn't seem like an underlying crime. Wouldn't the underlying crime be the "unlawful means" cited in this law?
Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
10367 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 9:30 pm to
quote:


So today we finally learned what the supposed "underlying crime" was, and it is that Trump violated campaign finance laws.


I told y'all that weeks ago.

I also told y'all why it was bullshite.

The legal standard for something being a campaign expense is that the expense couldn't benefit the campaigner in any way other than to help the campaign.

This never should have made it past pre-trial hearings, because the obvious rebuttal in this case is, "I just didn't want my wife to find out."

That's it. The case should have been dismissed right there. There's a clear reason other than benefitting the campaign that the money was spent, and no one can prove otherwise because it's a subjective reason (yet a real and frankly obvious one).

That standard exists for campaign finance expenses to keep people from running all sorts of personal expenses through the campaign, but in this case the knife (should have) cut the other way and exonerated Trump. Quickly.

Again, this never should have moved past pre-trial hearings.
Posted by TigerTattle
Out of Town
Member since Sep 2007
6686 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 9:39 pm to

I only caught the very beginning of the podcast and haven't listened to the rest, but it seems she was saying a guilty verdict on one of the 3 "crimes" constitutes a violation of the NY law. She called it ludicrous. I'll go back and listen to the whole thing when I get a minute.
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