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Message
re: The purpose of separation of church and state
Posted on 3/23/24 at 8:43 pm to LRB1967
Posted on 3/23/24 at 8:43 pm to LRB1967
quote:
We have freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.
How do you say this when there is no legal requirement to attend religious service or participate in any way, shape or form?
Also
quote:
Article VI
Clause 3 Oaths of Office
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
Those two constitutional provisions clearly state to me that we have the freedom from religion.
3
Posted on 3/23/24 at 8:45 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
Nope. I read his actual writings to see his intent was for the state to stay out of the church's business, not the church out of the state's business.
————————-
His personal writings or his notes from the meetings held during the drafting of the Constitution itself?
————————-
His personal writings or his notes from the meetings held during the drafting of the Constitution itself?
Posted on 3/23/24 at 8:46 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
(no message)
This post was edited on 3/23/24 at 8:47 pm
Posted on 3/23/24 at 8:47 pm to LCrox
quote:
His personal writings or his notes from the meetings held during the drafting of the Constitution itself?
I find it interesting that he and others claiming that there was no intention of the founders to "separate" the church and the state have yet to cite the constitution or any other law. It is clear they WANT to get to that conclusion but have no logical or legal based path to get there.
Posted on 3/23/24 at 8:48 pm to BayouBlitz
But for leftism is a religion.
Posted on 3/23/24 at 9:01 pm to thejuiceisloose
This post was edited on 3/23/24 at 9:04 pm
Posted on 3/23/24 at 9:03 pm to LCrox
quote:
Apologies Juice!
My comment was intended for Mid Iowa Tiger. Trying to understand which set of Madison writings he’s read.
No worries pal Although I replied to you my post really wasn't directed at you. Just making a general statement on the state of the thread.
Posted on 3/23/24 at 9:05 pm to thejuiceisloose
We good. Too much damn orange in this Texas Tennessee basketball cause’s nausea and confusion…lol
Posted on 3/23/24 at 11:16 pm to thejuiceisloose
It was the intention of the Founding Fathers that Americans would not be required to participate in religious activities but that they would always have the privilege to believe and practice the religion of their choice. You are not required to attend church but if you are walking down the street and hear a guy preaching on the sidewalk, you cannot stop him from doing so. In this and similar instances, you cannot be truly free from exposure to religion.
Posted on 3/23/24 at 11:23 pm to BayouBlitz
quote:I don’t believe that the integration of church and state is the root cause of the conflicts.
ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries
Posted on 3/24/24 at 7:14 am to BayouBlitz
quote:
quote:
Wrong.
So James Madison was wrong?
And you're more knowledgeable about the founding fathers mindset than hi
"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries."
What is your source that verifies, unequivocally, that this is a James Madison quote?
This post was edited on 3/24/24 at 7:16 am
Posted on 3/24/24 at 7:16 am to Pecker
quote:
I don’t believe that the integration of church and state is the root cause of the conflicts.
James Madison did.
Posted on 3/24/24 at 7:17 am to 2020_reVISION
quote:
What is your source that verifies, unequivocally, that this is a James Madison quote?
Oh For fricks Sake.
Posted on 3/24/24 at 7:21 am to SCLibertarian
Well, the Christian Nationalists ( all 10 of them) want God running the government.....so there is that.
Posted on 3/24/24 at 7:22 am to thejuiceisloose
quote:
Those two constitutional provisions clearly state to me that we have the freedom from religion.
And yet here we are, authoritarian leftists have made the State a religion. Complete with holy leaders, holy rules, and holy sites. You can’t have it both ways.
Posted on 3/24/24 at 7:30 am to BayouBlitz
Well, it wasn’t a purpose, Law, or Right. It was merely an opinion expressed.
An opinion based on there not being a sanctioned ONE religion, that would suppress any other religion, but the one ordained by the Government.
Not Freedom FROM religion, but Freedom OF religion.
Leftists have adopted the meaning to keep religion out of their worship of The State. Because to The Left, The State is their god.
An opinion based on there not being a sanctioned ONE religion, that would suppress any other religion, but the one ordained by the Government.
Not Freedom FROM religion, but Freedom OF religion.
Leftists have adopted the meaning to keep religion out of their worship of The State. Because to The Left, The State is their god.
Posted on 3/24/24 at 7:46 am to BayouBlitz
quote:
quote: What is your source that verifies, unequivocally, that this is a James Madison quote?
Oh For fricks Sake.
It's not a trick question.
Posted on 3/24/24 at 7:57 am to 2020_reVISION
James Madison was very clear on this.
quote:
SEPTEMBER 1833
. . .I must admit moreover that it may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to a usurpation on one side or the other or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them will be best guarded against by entire abstinence of the government from interference in any way whatever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order and protecting each sect against trespasses on its legal rights by others". . . .
Source of Information:
Letter to Rev. Jasper Adams from James Madison, September, 1833. Writings of James Madison, edited by Gaillard Hunt, [not sure what the volume number is but have enough information presented here to locate the letter] microform Z1236.L53, pp 484-488.
Posted on 3/24/24 at 7:59 am to BayouBlitz
Now Christians get their fill of religious violence by funding Israel and its genocide of Palestinians
Posted on 3/24/24 at 9:09 am to riccoar
Food for thought! In the First Congress, Madison submitted the following regarding freedom of conscience:
“The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be infringed.”
Of course, as the First Congress began debating, his original wording got reduced to what we have today.
— the First Congress by Fergus M Bordewich; p120 of paper back
“The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be infringed.”
Of course, as the First Congress began debating, his original wording got reduced to what we have today.
— the First Congress by Fergus M Bordewich; p120 of paper back
This post was edited on 3/24/24 at 9:41 am
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