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Message
re: So protein has 4 calories per Gram...
Posted on 3/20/24 at 9:07 am to OysterPoBoy
Posted on 3/20/24 at 9:07 am to OysterPoBoy
quote:
Someone just eat 4000 cal of healthy food and screenshot your tracker and let’s end this debate. If it’s not done by end of day the science will be settled that it’s impossible.
The 4000 number was hyperbolic
But you can easily eat in excess of your maintenance calories with only healthy foods
Posted on 3/20/24 at 9:15 am to Powerman
you are wasting your time arguing with stupidity
this thread is full of fricking tards.
everyone saying calories are not created equal then how you explain the 100+ studies that show once calories and protein are equated, you lose bodyfat at the same rate when deficit is equated?
literally post the studies or meta analysis or stfu with that dumb shite
i dont care about how you "feel" about a subject, show the studies or stfu
this thread is full of fricking tards.
everyone saying calories are not created equal then how you explain the 100+ studies that show once calories and protein are equated, you lose bodyfat at the same rate when deficit is equated?
literally post the studies or meta analysis or stfu with that dumb shite
i dont care about how you "feel" about a subject, show the studies or stfu
Posted on 3/20/24 at 9:37 am to lsu777
quote:
you are wasting your time arguing with stupidity
I have a bad habit of that
Posted on 3/20/24 at 9:41 am to Powerman
quote:
The 4000 number was hyperbolic
But you can easily eat in excess of your maintenance calories with only healthy foods
I know. As I was being hyperbolic with the 4000 cal example.
Regardless, if you take that example and use only the three big meals (which is generally what the average person will eat) it's under 1900 calories and it's a diet that will likely keep most people satisfied. You keep saying it's easy to eat in excess of maintenance with healthy food. I think we're just differing on the definition of easy. Possible? Sure, obviously. Common, even. But easy? I don't think so.
I'm a bodybuilder. My wife is a bodybuilder and pro fitness trainer. We eat extremely well, have high metabolisms, and eat way more than the average person. It is really difficult for me to get in 2500 cal at 175lbs. If I have an off day where I'm kinda just eating when I'm hungry, I usually fall around 1700-2000 calories; and again, that's with me still subconsciously trying to get in more food than a typical person would.
I'm not trying to bash you or be argumentative here. I think you're just kinda looking at this from only one angle of many possible.
I'm telling you based on real experience from myself, my wife, and tons of her clients. The average person, eating only healthy foods, is going to struggle to hit maintenance calories; it certainly won't be easy.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 9:42 am to Powerman
quote:
I have a bad habit of that
so do i. its a really bad habit of mine and sometimes its just to waste time throughout the day.
i sometimes just cant wrap my brain around others not understanding.
sometimes im like that with math, engineering and especially bad about it when it comes to lifting/performance training ......and unfortunately really bad about it when it comes to travel baseball. :cheers: :cheers:
Posted on 3/20/24 at 9:46 am to lsu777
quote:
literally post the studies or meta analysis or stfu with that dumb shite
Like the recent studies that red meat causes diabetes?
Going by your logic, a sugary beverage is better for you than a handful of nuts. That’s just not what the unbiased studies have shown.Looking only at calories ignores the metabolic effects of each calorie; the source of the calorie changes how you digest it and how you retrieve energy from it. That's what us 'fricking tards' are trying to explain.
Jared Fogle lost 100 pounds eating Subway sandwiches and walking. He looked like absolute shite and didn't have a single muscle in his entire body. How would he have looked and how long would it have taken him to get there if he ate steak and eggs instead of Subway sandwiches? There's nuance here to understand. Anyone can lose weight eating 2 meals at Taco Bell a day but it doesn't tell us the whole story.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 9:48 am to lsu777
quote:
you are wasting your time arguing with stupidity
this thread is full of fricking tards.
everyone saying calories are not created equal then how you explain the 100+ studies that show once calories and protein are equated, you lose bodyfat at the same rate when deficit is equated?
literally post the studies or meta analysis or stfu with that dumb shite
i dont care about how you "feel" about a subject, show the studies or stfu
Why are you so angry?
Your studies are great and all. We're talking about the real world.
A person who is eating 3000 garbage calories a day is not going to continue consuming 3000 calories if they switch to a diet consisting of real food. I promise you.
We're talking in generalities here. Obviously there are exceptions, but when talking about a quick step change and the impact it would have on the average american (take OP for example. 5'5" and 240 lbs) the oversimplified and high level concept of "you'll lose weight if you consume only 'healthy' things" is probably applicable to most.
The thing about eating healthy is that it's really not all that enjoyable. It's fun to eat pizza and ice cream, that's why obese people keep eating. It's not fun to eat boiled chicken and broccoli. So if that's all you can eat, you're just not gonna eat as much.
I absolutely assure you, if he made no changes except to replace his entire diet with healthy options (see the stuff I laid out in prior posts) he would lose weight. He could eat however much of it he desired, he'd still lose weight. He's not going to match his caloric intake of coke and bon bons with his caloric intake of water, chicken and rice. He will get full, he will not enjoy eating, and so he won't eat.
Seriously though, maybe roll one up and drink a beer. This shouldn't rustle you so much
Posted on 3/20/24 at 9:49 am to Fe_Mike
quote:
Why are you so angry?
Your studies are great and all. We're talking about the real world.
Do you think the studies are in an imaginary world or something?
Posted on 3/20/24 at 9:53 am to ronricks
quote:
Going by your logic, a sugary beverage is better for you than a handful of nuts. That’s just not what the unbiased studies have shown.Looking only at calories ignores the metabolic effects of each calorie; the source of the calorie changes how you digest it and how you retrieve energy from it. That's what us 'fricking tards' are trying to explain.
If you wanted to eat in a caloric surplus, nuts and nut butters would be a pretty easy way to get there. Those items have to be eaten in extreme moderation if you're looking to create a calorie deficit or even stay at maintenance calories.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 9:54 am to Powerman
quote:
Do you think the studies are in an imaginary world or something?
An unsettling number of them, yes. Yes I do.
Regardless, where are you getting your info from? I told you what my experience is. School me.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 9:59 am to Powerman
quote:
If you wanted to eat in a caloric surplus, nuts and nut butters would be a pretty easy way to get there.
Why would you want to eat in a caloric surplus if you are looking to lose weight?
As I said, it's obviously possible to eat healthy and be in surplus. If that's what you are trying to do. Trying being the key term.
So sure, if you're going to tell me that when I ask someone to eat healthy food and they decide they're going to do it by downing a 16 oz jar of Crazy Richard's peanut butter every day and call it healthy, I guess you're right. Let's use that completely non-hyperbolic and totally realistic argument.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 10:08 am to ronricks
quote:
Like the recent studies that red meat causes diabetes
pretty easy to read the study and see its faulty and not controlled well
but when you have 100plus saying same thing and meta analysis and peer reviewed and all come to the same conclusion that supports our understanding of thermodynamics....
quote:
Going by your logic, a sugary beverage is better for you than a handful of nuts
better in which way? we are talking fat loss. not health markers but to be fair...most health markers are effected most positively based on fat loss.
quote:
That’s just not what the unbiased studies have shown.Looking only at calories ignores the metabolic effects of each calorie; the source of the calorie changes how you digest it and how you retrieve energy from it. That's what us 'fricking tards' are trying to explain.
no, you must take into account things like dietary induced thermogensis. but we have a very good understanding of fatloss, very very good. and until you get down below like 12% bodyfat, things like insulin spikes dont really matter
quote:
Jared Fogle lost 100 pounds eating Subway sandwiches and walking. He looked like absolute shite and didn't have a single muscle in his entire body.
was he making sure he got enough protein and performing resistance training? no he wasnt. he didnt have muscle before so why would he suddenly when we know overall you must be in a caloric deficit and that in and of itself is catabolic. factor in he was in a huge deficit which we know is extremely catabolic
quote:
How would he have looked and how long would it have taken him to get there if he ate steak and eggs instead of Subway sandwiches?
pretty much the same if he didnt perform resistance training and was still in that big of a deficit if protein is equated
again you are missing the protein equated part
quote:
Anyone can lose weight eating 2 meals at Taco Bell a day but it doesn't tell us the whole story.
you are right it doesnt but if caloric deficit and protein are equated...fat loss will be equal
Posted on 3/20/24 at 10:11 am to Fe_Mike
quote:
Why would you want to eat in a caloric surplus if you are looking to lose weight?
You wouldn't
Hence the reason why macros are important
The idea that you can just eat anything that's on some healthy approved list and not eat in excess of your maintenance calories is beyond stupid
You absolutely do need to control portions and account for macros
Posted on 3/20/24 at 10:12 am to Fe_Mike
quote:
Why are you so angry?
Your studies are great and all. We're talking about the real world.
no shite and it shows exactly the same...ever heard of if it fits your macros?
quote:
A person who is eating 3000 garbage calories a day is not going to continue consuming 3000 calories if they switch to a diet consisting of real food. I promise you.
no shite because if you raise protein Dietary induced thermogensis will be different especially if person starts geting 200g protein so not prolly 200calories just from Thermic effect of food is coming off the total
quote:
We're talking in generalities here. Obviously there are exceptions, but when talking about a quick step change and the impact it would have on the average american (take OP for example. 5'5" and 240 lbs) the oversimplified and high level concept of "you'll lose weight if you consume only 'healthy' things" is probably applicable to most.
but lets explain why. CICO and protein.
quote:
I absolutely assure you, if he made no changes except to replace his entire diet with healthy options (see the stuff I laid out in prior posts) he would lose weight. He could eat however much of it he desired, he'd still lose weight. He's not going to match his caloric intake of coke and bon bons with his caloric intake of water, chicken and rice. He will get full, he will not enjoy eating, and so he won't eat.
lets explain why though..its because of the satiety of the food causing him to eat less and the raising of protein causing a much greater thermic effect from Dietary induced thermogensis.
quote:
Seriously though, maybe roll one up and drink a beer. This shouldn't rustle you so much
no rustled just annoyed when people act like calories dont matter
i dont give a frick if you eat keto while intermittent fasting, if you eat ina caloric surplus....you will gain weight.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 10:15 am to Fe_Mike
yea eating natural PB makes it so hard to get in a surplus
its still extremely easy to eat in a surplus eating things like nuts, nut butter, butter, natural cheese etc.
its very simple...and its fricking fact that can not be debated
no matter the diet, calories and protein... once equated, you will lose the same amount of body fat assuming all are on the same resistance routine.
its still extremely easy to eat in a surplus eating things like nuts, nut butter, butter, natural cheese etc.
its very simple...and its fricking fact that can not be debated
no matter the diet, calories and protein... once equated, you will lose the same amount of body fat assuming all are on the same resistance routine.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 10:20 am to lsu777
No need to argue, the science will be settled by end of day one way or the other.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 10:20 am to lsu777
quote:
no shite and it shows exactly the same...ever heard of if it fits your macros?
quote:
no shite because if you raise protein Dietary induced thermogensis will be different especially if person starts geting 200g protein so not prolly 200calories just from Thermic effect of food is coming off the total
quote:
but lets explain why. CICO and protein.
quote:
lets explain why though..its because of the satiety of the food causing him to eat less and the raising of protein causing a much greater thermic effect from Dietary induced thermogensis.
Did you really just call me a stupid fricking tard and proceed to agree with literally every single point I made?
What the hell are you disagreeing with me on? Are you just mad that I know all of this and didn't provide you citations from peer reviewed articles to back it up?
quote:
no rustled just annoyed when people act like calories dont matter
Literally not once did I say or imply calories don't matter.
This post was edited on 3/20/24 at 10:24 am
Posted on 3/20/24 at 10:30 am to Fe_Mike
quote:
Quick easy 6AM breakfast of 6 eggs and 2 cups of oats.
BTW, just reading that is going to keep me full until 3:00.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 10:32 am to Fe_Mike
quote:
Did you really just call me a stupid fricking tard and proceed to agree with literally every single point I made?
What the hell are you disagreeing with me on? Are you just mad that I know all of this and didn't provide you citations from peer reviewed articles to back it up?
wasnt really calling you one, certain others that say "eating healthy" is all that matters
Posted on 3/20/24 at 10:34 am to hall59tiger
quote:
.7-.8g per lb of body weight should work for pretty much everyone. 1g per lb would all but guarantee you are getting enough essential amino acids.
To simplify your statement, shoot for 0.75 to 1.00 gram per pound of weight and, particularly if you have kidney issues, spread that out over 4 cycles (and could be 3 meals and a supplement like a shake.)
For those wanting to keep the carbs low, supplement with high quality fats, olive oil or avocado oil, maybe add avocado, almonds, etc., to hit maintenance levels of calories. Be smart with carbs, too - oats over rice/potatoes, fruits/veggies over grains (micronutrients and fiber-rich).
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