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Started By
Message
re: Texas lowers trout limits to 3……
Posted on 1/27/24 at 1:48 pm to TJG210
Posted on 1/27/24 at 1:48 pm to TJG210
quote:
Where has the fishing gone to shite for redfish?
There has been a dramatic decline in the quality of the red fishery throughout the entirety of the interior marsh in southeast and south central LA over the last 6 years. You seem to view yourself as very knowledgeable on the subject, so frankly, I’m shocked you’d take any position to the contrary.
quote:
lol what a pile of bullshite. So now one guides fishing method determines what type of knowledge he has about the fishery?
You would put the opinion/anecdotes of someone who basically looks at redfish as bycatch for dead shrimp soaking clients on the same level as someone who spends 200 days a year on the water specifically targeting redfish? Interesting take.
1
Posted on 1/27/24 at 3:24 pm to bluemoons
quote:
You would put the opinion/anecdotes of someone who basically looks at redfish as bycatch for dead shrimp soaking clients on the same level as someone who spends 200 days a year on the water specifically targeting redfish? Interesting take.
The guide that told me that is probably one of the top redfish guides in the state.
Posted on 1/27/24 at 3:28 pm to TJG210
Interesting. You’d think if he were one of the top redfish guides in the state he’d be more aware of which groups are primarily supporting the new redfish regulations and why. You’d also think he’d be more aware of the rise and fall of the out of state guide population here over the last few years. You might ought to share his name so folks here understand which of the top redfish guides in the state is so out of touch with what’s going on with redfish.
This post was edited on 1/27/24 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 1/27/24 at 3:31 pm to bluemoons
quote:
You might ought to share his name so folks here understand which of the top redfish guides in the state is so out of touch with what’s going on with redfish.
How about you provide some proof behind your assertions?
Posted on 1/27/24 at 3:42 pm to MWP
quote:
I am of the mindset that if I go catch trout, I want at least enough to warrant getting some grease hot and 3 trout isn't enough to pull that trigger. I also absolutely refuse to freeze fish (or ducks) because the moment I do, that package will sit in my freezer for eternity so I only catch or kill enough to eat without freezing.
What do you do if you only catch 3? Do you just feed them to the birds at the dock?
Posted on 1/27/24 at 3:44 pm to TJG210
quote:
The guide that told me that is probably one of the top redfish guides in the state.
So one of the top redfish guides in the state said fly fishing guides from Florida are pushing for lowering Louisiana redfish limits?
Have you or this top redfish guide been to any of the WLF commission meetings?
Posted on 1/27/24 at 3:46 pm to Shanks A Lot
quote:
Have you or this top redfish guide been to any of the WLF commission meetings?
According to him, he’s been to them all.
Posted on 1/27/24 at 3:56 pm to TJG210
quote:
According to him, he’s been to them all.
Good on him for attending if true. Shame on him for spreading a bs lie about Florida fly fishing guides pushing this. He doesn’t sound very trustworthy imo.
If you attended any of these meetings you would know he is full of it.
Posted on 1/27/24 at 4:00 pm to Shanks A Lot
quote:
Shame on him for spreading a bs lie about Florida fly fishing guides pushing this. He doesn’t sound very trustworthy imo.
He’s very well respected…….so can you name the folks who are pushing it?
Posted on 1/27/24 at 4:01 pm to TJG210
Like what? Anecdotal or opinion-based? Fact-based? I’ve spent 90% of my time in the marsh over the past 15 years sight fishing redfish. For most of those years, I’ve spent more time on the water than anybody I know that isn’t full time guide and more time on the water than a lot of people I know that are full time guides. I have personally seen the decline of the fishery myself and immediately question the credibility of anyone who argues otherwise. Some of my closest friends are full time guides that focus only on redfish. They have spoken in front of the wildlife and fisheries commission and testified in front of the joint house/senate natural resources committee relative to same. If you ask those of us that have been the most engaged in red fishing over the last decade, there is absolutely no question that the quality of the fishery has declined and to argue otherwise is completely laughable. In any event, that’s anecdotal and opinion-based.
Fact-based? I’ve read the 2022 stock assessment so many times I can almost recite it verbatim. I’d encourage you to read it. More than 95% of redfish harvest involves slot redfish (<4 years old). This has a negative effect on escapement rate and prevents redfish reaching spawning maturity from making it nearshore/offshore to spawn, which decreases the spawning potential ratio. The spawning potential ratio for Louisiana’s redfish population has been decreasing since 2005 and it continues to do so exponentially year on year. Overfishing has occurred the most significantly over the last 10 years. The escapement rate is at least 10% below what it needs to be in order to sustain the population. Both escapement rates and the spawning potential ratio need to be increased dramatically in order to rebuild the redfish population to the numbers that most of us are used to. At this point, every method of redfish harvest plays a role in that, regardless how small.
I feel like I’m pretty tolerant of others’ opinions and experiences when it comes to fishing regulations until they start arguing completely baseless positions about things they know nothing about. You are not qualified to have this debate with me and please don’t believe that indisputably inaccurate second hand information from a redfish guide gives you that ability.
ETA; actually, at this point, you’ve got to be trolling.
Fact-based? I’ve read the 2022 stock assessment so many times I can almost recite it verbatim. I’d encourage you to read it. More than 95% of redfish harvest involves slot redfish (<4 years old). This has a negative effect on escapement rate and prevents redfish reaching spawning maturity from making it nearshore/offshore to spawn, which decreases the spawning potential ratio. The spawning potential ratio for Louisiana’s redfish population has been decreasing since 2005 and it continues to do so exponentially year on year. Overfishing has occurred the most significantly over the last 10 years. The escapement rate is at least 10% below what it needs to be in order to sustain the population. Both escapement rates and the spawning potential ratio need to be increased dramatically in order to rebuild the redfish population to the numbers that most of us are used to. At this point, every method of redfish harvest plays a role in that, regardless how small.
I feel like I’m pretty tolerant of others’ opinions and experiences when it comes to fishing regulations until they start arguing completely baseless positions about things they know nothing about. You are not qualified to have this debate with me and please don’t believe that indisputably inaccurate second hand information from a redfish guide gives you that ability.
ETA; actually, at this point, you’ve got to be trolling.
This post was edited on 1/27/24 at 4:05 pm
Posted on 1/27/24 at 4:07 pm to TJG210
quote:
so can you name the folks who are pushing it
Off the top of my head
Louisiana Charter Boat Association is pushing for 4 fish limit.
CCA is pushing for 4 fish limit.
Louisiana Fly guides are pushing for 3 fish limit.
Posted on 1/27/24 at 4:10 pm to bluemoons
quote:
ou are not qualified to have this debate with me and please don’t believe that indisputably inaccurate second hand information from a redfish guide gives you that ability.
You’re right, 40+ yrs in the marsh and I have no frame of reference and completely relying on the word of others.
Maybe the studies are correct, but after seeing what abominations their assessment on trout is I find it hard to put much faith in anything coming from them. Not to mention the unwillingness to do much at all to stop the pogey boats from killing piles of spawning fish.
Posted on 1/27/24 at 4:22 pm to TJG210
quote:
He’s very well respected…….so can you name the folks who are pushing it?
Who are you talking about? I have no skin in the game (I really don’t care about reds) and it seems like almost every reasonable angler across the state unanimously agrees we have a serious problem when it comes to the future of our redfish population. We have a few pockets doing well but things are not looking great most everywhere
Posted on 1/27/24 at 4:26 pm to TJG210
quote:
Not to mention the unwillingness to do much at all to stop the pogey boats from killing piles of spawning fish
Who? Wildlife and fisheries? What exactly is it that you expect them to do to curtail pogie fishing other than suggest to the legislature that a wider buffer is established (which they’ve done, by the way)? The commission has literally blasted Omega publicly over the last several months, but LDWF has absolutely no lawmaking authority.
Do you think that the LDWF commission, that most recently suggested an expanded buffer zone (though not nearly expansive enough) for pogie fishing is controlled by special interests? Which special interests? If so, just so we are clear, that would be the same commission that issued an NOI with a significant reduction in redfish limits, which was shot down by the joint committee with the support of CCA.
I’m just trying to figure out who exactly it is that you’re upset with and what you expect them to do. It’s hilarious to me that people think that the LDWF commission just relies on a bunch of biologists making up data, as if they get paid to fabricate statistics that puts them at odds with major special interest groups like Omega. Then those same people will argue that LDWF can’t be trusted because they’re controlled by special interest groups. The mental gymnastics required to support that paradox are beyond my cognitive ability.
Posted on 1/27/24 at 4:53 pm to bluemoons
Good luck to you in your endeavors of trying to educate folks. I have been deep into how the sausage is made when it comes to the coastal resources of Texas for 20 + years. It's a no win situation for the most part, folks like to argue that the decisions aren't science based until you show them the science, then they don't trust the folks providing the science. It's quite maddening.
Posted on 1/27/24 at 5:15 pm to TxWadingFool
quote:
Good luck to you in your endeavors of trying to educate folks.
I really wish people would just say “I just don’t like government regulations and I want to do what I want to do”. I’d at least respect the honesty
It’s the constant deflecting and rehashing the same ole reductionistic, oversimplified, kindergarten level arguments that’s getting old.
Posted on 1/27/24 at 5:51 pm to hall59tiger
Bow fishing for redfish should be illegal
Posted on 1/27/24 at 8:33 pm to hall59tiger
quote:
really wish people would just say “I just don’t like government regulations and I want to do what I want to do”. I’d at least respect the honesty
If you truly gave a shite about the trout resource in Louisiana then you’d care about the root cause in the places it’s suffering, and it’s not the fisherman. It’s the fresh water coming through Mardi Gras pass and the tons of freshwater about to be unleashed on the westbank. It won’t do a damn thing except make the fishing worse while barely doing a damn thing. Every time they put a diversion in we get sold a bill of goods “this will be different”. Davis Pond hasn’t done shite in Lafitte as far as building land.
Why don’t you ever address the fact that trout fishing was exponentially better summer 23 compared to 21/22. I’m no expert, but I’m pretty certain it was the lower River, higher salinity.
Posted on 1/28/24 at 4:59 am to TJG210
Lots of things to break down here….
The diversions give me a good example of how to explain to you what I am trying to say. The diversions will negatively impact trout fishing. No doubt about it. I love trout fishing and it would greatly benefit me to have no diversions or fresh water entering our system like we do at Mardis Gras pass or in manchac. Having said that, if it’s the best long term option we have to protect our habitat I support it. I’m willing to make that sacrifice
I’m more concerned with long term trends. This fall was the best I’ve had in 5 or so years of fishing. The average size I’ve caught has also gone up. It’s been pretty nice. Still, if you zoom out it’s very clear the fishing is worse than it was 10-25-50 years ago. I’m more worried about what I can do to ensure my grandkids get to enjoy the marsh than bringing home a few more fish (I like eating fish too).
You are right about the whole salinity thing. I think rec fisherman are way down the list of things impacting the trout population.
Also, I thought we are talking about redfish here, which is clearly declining. I’ll admit that I’m not even sure what I believe on trout regs anymore. I’d rather be safe than sorry but I can’t sit here and honestly say the new regs are what’s best.
What seems pretty clear to anyone who spends time in the marsh (and doesn’t financially benefit from them dying) is that the redfish are in trouble. Of course it’s still not that hard to go catch a limit of reds if you really try. I know a few places right now where I can go do just that. But being able to catch a limit has nothing to do with the fact the population is in an overall decline. Technically, if there were only 30 redfish left in the marsh I’d still have a chance at a 6 man limit out there. Where are the days where you can go catch 60-70-80 fish just fricking around and see 300+ while sight fishing? That should be a common occurrence
The diversions give me a good example of how to explain to you what I am trying to say. The diversions will negatively impact trout fishing. No doubt about it. I love trout fishing and it would greatly benefit me to have no diversions or fresh water entering our system like we do at Mardis Gras pass or in manchac. Having said that, if it’s the best long term option we have to protect our habitat I support it. I’m willing to make that sacrifice
I’m more concerned with long term trends. This fall was the best I’ve had in 5 or so years of fishing. The average size I’ve caught has also gone up. It’s been pretty nice. Still, if you zoom out it’s very clear the fishing is worse than it was 10-25-50 years ago. I’m more worried about what I can do to ensure my grandkids get to enjoy the marsh than bringing home a few more fish (I like eating fish too).
You are right about the whole salinity thing. I think rec fisherman are way down the list of things impacting the trout population.
Also, I thought we are talking about redfish here, which is clearly declining. I’ll admit that I’m not even sure what I believe on trout regs anymore. I’d rather be safe than sorry but I can’t sit here and honestly say the new regs are what’s best.
What seems pretty clear to anyone who spends time in the marsh (and doesn’t financially benefit from them dying) is that the redfish are in trouble. Of course it’s still not that hard to go catch a limit of reds if you really try. I know a few places right now where I can go do just that. But being able to catch a limit has nothing to do with the fact the population is in an overall decline. Technically, if there were only 30 redfish left in the marsh I’d still have a chance at a 6 man limit out there. Where are the days where you can go catch 60-70-80 fish just fricking around and see 300+ while sight fishing? That should be a common occurrence
This post was edited on 1/28/24 at 7:54 am
Posted on 1/28/24 at 9:07 am to TJG210
I fish out of a kayak. I can go catch three trout any day of the week for the cost of a bucket of shrimp.
How is this helping guide services? Who would pay hundreds of dollars to come home with 3 trout and 2 redfish?
How is this helping guide services? Who would pay hundreds of dollars to come home with 3 trout and 2 redfish?
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