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Started By
Message
I'm not sure how this team improves via trade
Posted on 1/8/24 at 9:05 am
Posted on 1/8/24 at 9:05 am
I really can't think of a way to improve the team via trade at this point. Best option is probably a consolidation trade but even then, not sure who that would be.
Just looking at the roster there are pretty strong reasons NOT to trade most of the guys.
CJ - Most consistent shooter and vet leader.
Herb - Best defender, great contract.
BI - Arguably best playmaker. I still lean toward maybe him being the guy I'd trade but he has definitely leveled up on D lately and I don't think we would trade him anyway.
Zion - Probably the next guy I'd consider, but that effectively ends any title delusions we have.
Jonas - What we'd gain in rim protection, we'd lose in rebounding and offense.
Trey - Untouchable.
Jose - Fan favorite, spark plug and a good player against most teams.
Dyson - Elite defender and so young. Hate to give up on him this son.
Hawkins - Elite shooter who could be a cornerstone once CJ is gone.
Naji - Energy and culture guy. I would consider it since we probably can't afford him next year, but not sure what kind of upgrade he would bring.
Nance - I'd consider it but we'd miss his leadership and defense. Hard to imagine a better fit.
Kira - Clearly a salary dump.
Zeller - No sense moving him.
Earl - Same.
Liddell - Who cares?
So if we go consolidation trade, who are you willing to give up? Dyson? Hawkins? Jose? Gonna have to give up someone good plus picks. I don't know how far that pushes the needle.
Unfortunately, I think once again, we go as far as Zion takes us.
He gets back to last year's December Zion...we ride. If not, we are what we are. A middling playoff/play-in team.
Just looking at the roster there are pretty strong reasons NOT to trade most of the guys.
CJ - Most consistent shooter and vet leader.
Herb - Best defender, great contract.
BI - Arguably best playmaker. I still lean toward maybe him being the guy I'd trade but he has definitely leveled up on D lately and I don't think we would trade him anyway.
Zion - Probably the next guy I'd consider, but that effectively ends any title delusions we have.
Jonas - What we'd gain in rim protection, we'd lose in rebounding and offense.
Trey - Untouchable.
Jose - Fan favorite, spark plug and a good player against most teams.
Dyson - Elite defender and so young. Hate to give up on him this son.
Hawkins - Elite shooter who could be a cornerstone once CJ is gone.
Naji - Energy and culture guy. I would consider it since we probably can't afford him next year, but not sure what kind of upgrade he would bring.
Nance - I'd consider it but we'd miss his leadership and defense. Hard to imagine a better fit.
Kira - Clearly a salary dump.
Zeller - No sense moving him.
Earl - Same.
Liddell - Who cares?
So if we go consolidation trade, who are you willing to give up? Dyson? Hawkins? Jose? Gonna have to give up someone good plus picks. I don't know how far that pushes the needle.
Unfortunately, I think once again, we go as far as Zion takes us.
He gets back to last year's December Zion...we ride. If not, we are what we are. A middling playoff/play-in team.
10
Posted on 1/8/24 at 9:08 am to ghost2most
Only thing I see is trying to dump salary with Kira. If he can’t get in when we’re up by 50 what’s the point of having him on the roster.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 9:26 am to BigPerm30
Only potential I see is something around the edges, like Kira, Cody and EJ with cash to Hornets for someone like Richards as a backup big. However, since we wasted so many 2nds dumping Devonte, not sure what draft comp we could even offer to get that done. Even that though is likely not enough to keep us below the tax given we would have to replace the open roster spots with league minimum guys like Ryan.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 9:41 am to BigPerm30
For clarity, he would have played had he been with the team. He's in Birmingham with Seabron but yeah he's not going to get meaningful minutes here.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 9:46 am to NOSHAU
Would you trade Hawkins to get back Mark Williams or Walker Kessler? I wouldn't want to, but i'd be open to it.
That's the kind of trade i'd look for.
I'd rather trade the 2024 1st and whatever else is needed to get one of those 2. They get a half year to play and see if that's who we want going forward instead of JV.
If you could get Kessler for 2 1sts, without giving up Hawkins, that would be a great move imo, although i'm sure the Jazz think he's worth 8 1sts.
That's the kind of trade i'd look for.
I'd rather trade the 2024 1st and whatever else is needed to get one of those 2. They get a half year to play and see if that's who we want going forward instead of JV.
If you could get Kessler for 2 1sts, without giving up Hawkins, that would be a great move imo, although i'm sure the Jazz think he's worth 8 1sts.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 9:51 am to MrBarry
The only potential upgrade i see is Jarret Allen but i really dont think the Cavs sell him. Yeah you would lose the offense from JV but that could be made up by putting Trey in the starting lineup for Herb.
Wendell Carter Jr is apparently available and is someone i've liked but he's been injury prone so it would suck to lose JV's consistency for another injury prone guy.
I would bet that all we do is use a 2nd to dump kira, get out the tax and sign matt ryan.
It's not sexy but i really don't see a lot of upgrades for us that will be actually on the market
Wendell Carter Jr is apparently available and is someone i've liked but he's been injury prone so it would suck to lose JV's consistency for another injury prone guy.
I would bet that all we do is use a 2nd to dump kira, get out the tax and sign matt ryan.
It's not sexy but i really don't see a lot of upgrades for us that will be actually on the market
Posted on 1/8/24 at 9:53 am to ghost2most
What are you trying to improve?
If they play up to their capability on defense, and are hitting their shots, you beat most teams like you did last night. Defense travels. Defense will also help you in the playoffs. I think what they lack is experience. There are very few teams that will have the bench output the Pels have.
Honestly, have we see a defensive output like last night when Zion is on the floor? I can't remember one.
What makes this team better, besides playing up to potential? Honest question, because I really don't know.
If they play up to their capability on defense, and are hitting their shots, you beat most teams like you did last night. Defense travels. Defense will also help you in the playoffs. I think what they lack is experience. There are very few teams that will have the bench output the Pels have.
Honestly, have we see a defensive output like last night when Zion is on the floor? I can't remember one.
What makes this team better, besides playing up to potential? Honest question, because I really don't know.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 9:56 am to SaintEB
quote:
Honestly, have we see a defensive output like last night when Zion is on the floor? I can't remember one.
Just last week against the nets and wolves. Our defense was incredible and Zion was a part of that.
quote:
What makes this team better, besides playing up to potential? Honest question, because I really don't know.
IMO it's coaching. Willie becoming a better coach and having smarter rotations would be far more impactful than any realistic move we could make at the deadline
Posted on 1/8/24 at 9:57 am to ghost2most
You do whatever you can to get Lauri and go all in on these 3 years. After that the team wont exist as currently configured.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 9:58 am to ghost2most
quote:
Jonas - What we'd gain in rim protection, we'd lose in rebounding and offense.
This is just wrong.
He's such a poor fit with the starters that we always close games with his backup, and he has played less than 23 minutes in our last four games.
I've said it before, but it bears repeating: last season, we were a combined -10 with Jonas on the floor and +208 with Larry.
It's not just that he can't jump. He's just too slow. He looked a little faster at the beginning of this season, and that was nice, but I think it's gone now.
Imagine a big who can help in transition -- on both ends of the floor. Imagine a big who can rotate to and close out on an open shooter. If you think that "rim protection" is JV's only weakness, you're fooling yourself.
And what JV does offensively is not integral to how we want to play. When the ball goes in to him in the post, he holds it for a second to figure out what he wants to do, then he takes several dribbles, etc. -- it's slow basketball.
And we usually don't need JV to create interior scoring opportunities for us, because we have BI and Zion, both of whom generate their points and assists inside the 3-point line. Seriously, what's a better play: a JV postup, or Zion/BI getting the ball at the top of the key?
If you tell me that JV's scoring is valuable when one of Zion and BI are off the floor, then that's fine, but it's not something that we need in our starting or finishing lineups. What you're telling me at that point is that JV is a good backup, which I agree with.
All this isn't meant to hate on him. He's a great guy and does a lot for us. And he certainly has value -- you could see that last night against Sabonis. But he's not a starter on any contending team.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 9:59 am to Balsamic_duck
quote:
against the nets
Meh.
quote:
wolves
Legit, but I don't recall it looking as crisp as last night. They were all over the place last night. Like guys were teleporting to the right places.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:15 am to MrBarry
Kessler is arguably one of the best rim protectors in the league. I imagine he's untouchable. What's the point in trading him for Utah?
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:16 am to ghost2most
quote:My preference would be some combo of Naji/Dyson/Hawkins/picks.
So if we go consolidation trade, who are you willing to give up?
Herb or Jose could be added but Herb should be very costly and I hesitate to add Jose simply because his value in a trade I don't think can ever match his value on this team especially for the regular season, so I side with leaving Jose off that list.
We don't know who is available, but much like every year, more dudes will become available near the deadline, some being dudes we didn't even know were available.
Obviously you don't just trade for the sake of trading, but I'd say it's likely some upgrade will come available, and we should definitely be in the mix and trying to work the right deal for that person given they're a good fit here.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:18 am to MrBarry
quote:Hawkins for Kessler? Phone that one in immediately.
Would you trade Hawkins to get back Mark Williams or Walker Kessler? I wouldn't want to, but i'd be open to it.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:19 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
This is just wrong.
He's such a poor fit with the starters that we always close games with his backup, and he has played less than 23 minutes in our last four games.
I've said it before, but it bears repeating: last season, we were a combined -10 with Jonas on the floor and +208 with Larry.
It's not just that he can't jump. He's just too slow. He looked a little faster at the beginning of this season, and that was nice, but I think it's gone now.
Imagine a big who can help in transition -- on both ends of the floor. Imagine a big who can rotate to and close out on an open shooter. If you think that "rim protection" is JV's only weakness, you're fooling yourself.
And what JV does offensively is not integral to how we want to play. When the ball goes in to him in the post, he holds it for a second to figure out what he wants to do, then he takes several dribbles, etc. -- it's slow basketball.
And we usually don't need JV to create interior scoring opportunities for us, because we have BI and Zion, both of whom generate their points and assists inside the 3-point line. Seriously, what's a better play: a JV postup, or Zion/BI getting the ball at the top of the key?
If you tell me that JV's scoring is valuable when one of Zion and BI are off the floor, then that's fine, but it's not something that we need in our starting or finishing lineups. What you're telling me at that point is that JV is a good backup, which I agree with.
All this isn't meant to hate on him. He's a great guy and does a lot for us. And he certainly has value -- you could see that last night against Sabonis. But he's not a starter on any contending team.
I think you're mostly probably right.
So Allen makes the most sense probably as an potentially attainable big.
The question is, what are you willing to give up for him?
Would the Cavs even want JV? Dyson would be a very nice fit for Cleveland IMO. They have two very good scorers/poor defenders in Mitchell and Garland. Dyson as a third guard over another scorer like Lavert would be good for them. I feel there's some overlap between Mobley and Allen as well.
Would JV and Dyson and maybe a pick be enough? Would you do it?
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:21 am to SaintEB
quote:The overall team
What are you trying to improve?
quote:I don't think anyone truly thinks we can beat a Denver or a Boston, so upgrades should at the very least be explored.
If they play up to their capability on defense, and are hitting their shots, you beat most teams like you did last night. Defense travels. Defense will also help you in the playoffs. I think what they lack is experience. There are very few teams that will have the bench output the Pels have.
If we don't think we can comfortably beat every team in a playoff series, we should be exploring ways to improve the team.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:24 am to shel311
quote:
I don't think anyone truly thinks we can beat a Denver or a Boston, so upgrades should at the very least be explored.
I'm much more confident vs Denver than I am Boston.
Boston will just 3 us to death and Porzingis weird grasshopper looking arse will be a pain at the rim. Denver has zero rim protection and we have the dudes to slow down Murray and Porter.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:25 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
I've said it before, but it bears repeating: last season, we were a combined -10 with Jonas on the floor and +208 with Larry.
I don't think that's a secret. Larry fits better with Zion, simple as that.
I still think having JV/Larry combo is better than going get a $20M center that is going to do what Larry does. JV wins us games by himself in the regular season.
I know that come playoff time JV is not going to get to play much, but he's still needed in the regular season. I just don't see how Jarrett Allen makes us better. He has zero offense. There are other defenders out there that have no offense that are cheaper, and when i say cheaper, i mean salary wise. I don't care about giving up picks to improve.
quote:
If you tell me that JV's scoring is valuable when one of Zion and BI are off the floor, then that's fine, but it's not something that we need in our starting or finishing lineups. What you're telling me at that point is that JV is a good backup, which I agree with.
He really is, but i doubt he's wanting to do that.
I don't want to trade JV, but he's really the only peice to move to really improve the roster.
I just don't think $20M Jarrett Allen is the answer.
I'd rather look at something like JV for Claxton and Sharpe from Brooklyn. Claxton is undersized, which is why i'd want Sharpe as well.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:26 am to ghost2most
quote:You may not be wrong but I think our chances of beating either right now are so slim that it doesn't matter that much if it's better/worse for 1 or the other. It's slim.
I'm much more confident vs Denver than I am Boston.
Boston will just 3 us to death and Porzingis weird grasshopper looking arse will be a pain at the rim. Denver has zero rim protection and we have the dudes to slow down Murray and Porter.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:29 am to ghost2most
quote:
Kessler is arguably one of the best rim protectors in the league. I imagine he's untouchable. What's the point in trading him for Utah?
This summer, yeah he was untouchable.
Now, he's touchable. He's not having the same type of season he did last year. If he was untouchable, he'd be starting every game, but he's not. He's been better off the bench than he has been as a starter this year.
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