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re: EvangelicalBible.com with a boom today
Posted on 12/12/23 at 7:54 pm to L.A.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 7:54 pm to L.A.
quote:
Of course the religion that grew up around him is an entirely different matter and has more to do with Paul than with Jesus.
Yes, Paul is the only reason Christianity exists.
In Paul’s letters, he references a celestial Jesus being killed by archons (demons, what your Bible will translate as rulers, powers, and principalities) in the lowest heaven under the firmament. Paul makes no mention of an earthly Jesus. He makes no mention of anyone ever meeting an earthly Jesus. In fact, Paul states that just like the other apostles, namely Peter and James but others too, he knows of Jesus and the gospel by finding hidden meaning in the Jewish scriptures and by direct revelation (hallucinations, visions) of the Lord himself.
Paul argues amongst his congregations and the other apostles. Wouldn’t it have been something for Paul to say “yeah but Jesus told me this directly himself when he was in Galilee” or something to that extent. Paul never gets “one-up’d” by the other apostles, because like Paul, the others had also never met an earthly Jesus and they didn’t claim for him to have ever been on earth in a fleshly body.
Mark created a narrative very much like a play. The end has the two women running away from the tomb in fear after the man/angel told them Jesus had been resurrected. It literally says they ran away in fear and told no one. I think Mark may have been some type of play or literature meant for entertainment value only, but possibly as a tool to convert gentiles who weren’t familiar with Jewish theology of the celestial Jesus.
In Mark, the disciples are dummies. They don’t understand what Jesus is or what he’s doing. They’re like Jesus’ dumb sidekicks like you have on old looney tunes cartoons for comedic relief.
Mark replays the day of atonement. Two identical unblemished goats. Pilate “sacrifices” Iesous the one called Christos, and he “releases” Iesous bar Abbas (Jesus son of the father) as the goat to be sent off to the wilderness to Azazel the desert demon.
When was Jesus crucified? Day before or day after Passover? It depends on which gospel you read (hey I took that straight from Bart Ehrman).
Pilate, what a nice guy, he lets Jesus’ followers take down his body from the cross after he dies… bullshite. The purpose of a Roman crucifixion was to let the body of the deceased rot for all to see, and for the beasts of the air and of the field to consume the body.
Matthew redacted and edited Mark. Matthew is not a separate account obviously. Two independent people aren’t going to write two stories that are word for word copies of some verses… without actually copying.
Luke copied and redacted Matthew and Mark. John was less lazy than Matthew and Luke and he copied and redacted all the gospels but at least put it in his own words.
The gospels all disagree with each other and with Paul on the very basics of Jesus. None are historically accurate.
quote:
But to say that Jesus never existed, I'd say you're in the minority with that view
Absolutely, but it’s because the majority are indoctrinated, uneducated, ignorant, unintelligent, or foolish. In my opinion.
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Posted on 12/12/23 at 8:08 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:He's quite clear that he never did
He makes no mention of anyone ever meeting an earthly Jesus
quote:Yes
Matthew redacted and edited Mark. Matthew is not a separate account obviously. Two independent people aren’t going to write two stories that are word for word copies of some verses… without actually copying.
Luke copied and redacted Matthew and Mark
quote:I think John came from a different source, as Raymond Brown writes about in his Community of the Beloved Disciple. It's not about not being lazy. It's an entirely different story. No parables. No mention of the kingdom of God, which is Jesus' central teaching in the Synoptics. No virgin birth, but rather a preexistent deity come to earth. All 7 I Am statements. The kingdom is in heaven not here on earth. And so on and so on
John was less lazy than Matthew and Luke and he copied and redacted all the gospels but at least put it in his own words.
quote:Which is why I cited none of that in my rationale for accepting the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth
The gospels all disagree with each other and with Paul on the very basics of Jesus. None are historically accurate.
quote:I'm not talking about the majority of believers. I'm talking about the majority of scholars.
Absolutely, but it’s because the majority are indoctrinated, uneducated, ignorant, unintelligent, or foolish.
This post was edited on 12/12/23 at 8:11 pm
Posted on 12/12/23 at 8:53 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
Two independent people aren’t going to write two stories that are word for word copies of some verses… without actually copying.
Or alternately, they used the same oral tradition.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 10:06 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:I pity you and hope the Lord changes your heart and brings you repentance and a saving trust in Jesus before you die. Otherwise He will pour out His wrath on you for eternity for not only your rejection of the truth but for attempting to lead others astray.
Squirrelmeister
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