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re: Is the Koran or Quran taken out of context ?
Posted on 10/12/23 at 10:44 am to donut
Posted on 10/12/23 at 10:44 am to donut
quote:Probably true.quote:For a bit of clarification that reference to "Israel" in the quote is a reference to a group of people not necessarily a state of Israel.
1209 BCE, which states "Israel is laid waste and his seed is not."
This Egyptian reference is probably just to the loosely-affiliated Yahwist/Israelite tribes, which had not yet coalesced into a nation-state. The Kingdom of Israel (the northern kingdom) and the Kingdom of Judah/Judea (the southern kingdom) were not founded until about 200 years later. Modern Judaism is descended (after many twists and turns) from the southern kingdom, as the Assyrians basically obliterated the northern kingdom and its people, though the Samaritans arguably descend from the northern kingdom.
Neither the northern nor southern kingdom was really "Jewish" in the modern sense. For clarity, it is probably better to describe them as "Yahwists." They were probably not even fully-monotheistic yet, but rather early in the monolatrist phase of the development of modern Judaism.
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 11:20 am
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Posted on 10/12/23 at 10:46 am to ApexTiger
quote:
but we're hearing death to the jews
why are the Jews hated, I just don't get it
Pretty simple really.
The Jews are God's chosen people according to the Torah/Old Testament.
If God and allah are one and the same, then why would He all of a sudden decide that they need to be eliminated? The answer of course is that they are not one and the same.
The next question then is who would want to destroy God's people? Who is the enemy of God? Who takes delight in misery, death and destruction? Well, Satan of course.
The muslim holy book says to convert people to Islam by force if necessary. That does not comport with anything in the Torah or Bible. Jesus said, "Love your enemies." There is no such sentiment in the Koran.
Islam is the "answer" to Judaism and Christianity, not a continuation of them.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 11:16 am to ApexTiger
quote:
I've never seen the evil we're seeing...in the name of Allah
Then you haven't been paying attention. Were you alive in 2001?
Posted on 10/12/23 at 11:21 am to Antoninus
quote:
Antoninus
Thanks. Like I said, I did not know if it's true or not. My only questions would be does it only apply to other Muslims and is it actually in the Quran or just the Hadith?
Posted on 10/12/23 at 11:27 am to riverparish
quote:As far as I know, it is not addressed in any of the surah, only the hadith.
My only questions would be does (the Golden Rule in Islam) only apply to other Muslims and is it actually in the Quran or just the Hadith?
But it is a hadith attributed directly to their Prophet. (I am sure you understand that there are multiple types of hadith, some more authoritative than others.)
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 11:32 am
Posted on 10/12/23 at 11:34 am to ApexTiger
Two random notes:
1. The Koran you read is the edited version. Around 1950 they deleted a lot of calls for violence to make it appropriate for English translation. They didn't want shock the west.
2. Islam is much more of an oral tradition than Christianity or Judaism. Some Imams are illiterate. Many of their followers are illiterate. This leads to misinterpretations of actual text.
1. The Koran you read is the edited version. Around 1950 they deleted a lot of calls for violence to make it appropriate for English translation. They didn't want shock the west.
2. Islam is much more of an oral tradition than Christianity or Judaism. Some Imams are illiterate. Many of their followers are illiterate. This leads to misinterpretations of actual text.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 11:39 am to Antoninus
quote:I would believe you if radical muslims didn't kill innocents all over the world. They're getting it from somewhere.
the text says NOT to (basically) kill innocents.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 11:40 am to riverparish
“Catholics believe theirs is the only true religion”
You might believe they don’t teach that.
I went to Catholic schools 12 years and was taught that probably 100 times.We had religion class every day along with reading,’ riting and ‘rithmatic.
Invariably,there was a kid in class with a Protestant parent that were concerned that parent wouldn’t go to heaven.
The nun would explain that they could certainly go to heaven but it would be easier if they were Catholic.
Pretty sure the kid would go home and try and convert the Protestant parent.
You might believe they don’t teach that.
I went to Catholic schools 12 years and was taught that probably 100 times.We had religion class every day along with reading,’ riting and ‘rithmatic.
Invariably,there was a kid in class with a Protestant parent that were concerned that parent wouldn’t go to heaven.
The nun would explain that they could certainly go to heaven but it would be easier if they were Catholic.
Pretty sure the kid would go home and try and convert the Protestant parent.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 11:41 am to Zach
quote:Could you link some authority for this assertion? I've not seen it before and would be interested to read more.
The Koran you read is the edited version. Around 1950 they deleted a lot of calls for violence to make it appropriate for English translation. They didn't want shock the west.
quote:Very true. A lot of non-Muslims tend to think of the hadith as being basically a part of the Qur'an, when many of them are probably more analogous to the Talmud or to the writings of Christian religious scholars.
Islam is much more of an oral tradition than Christianity or Judaism. Some Imams are illiterate. Many of their followers are illiterate. This leads to misinterpretations of actual text.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 11:43 am to LSUA 75
I think you responded to the wrong person. I never said that. FTR, im Catholic and do not believe that at all.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 11:46 am to LSUA 75
I also went to Catholic school for 12 years and didn't get that at all. It's not good for Christianity to be so sectioned off. Anybody should agree that a united church is more effective and better for all. The question is, what is that united church? Catholics believe that they have the authority given to them by being able to trace their authority all the way back to St. Peter. No other church can say that. What I just wrote is not the same as "the Catholic Church thinks they are the only religion".
Posted on 10/12/23 at 11:46 am to Antoninus
quote:
Could you link some authority for this assertion? I've not seen it before and would be interested to read more.
So you've been white-knighting and islama-splaining on a subject you didn't properly research?
You're been lecturing people for ascribing violence to a religion KNOWN for its violence and you didn't know this?
I mean, to be such an authority on this, one would think that your lecturing to the masses is based on the fact you are reading from the originals in its native tongue.
Did you ever think the Google source you're using to tell the peasants to ignore their lying eyes is simply pro-islam propaganda edited to be more palatable?
I thought you would learn your lesson after posting some pro-pedo bullzhit studies based on the self-identification and admissions of 30 sexual deviants in Florida as Gospel.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 11:48 am to Antoninus
quote:
As far as I know, it is not addressed in any of the surah, only the hadith.
Give us the link to the pro-islam propaganda site you've been feverishly posting from.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 11:48 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:
On the contrary, Jews are “people of the book” along with Christians and are not to be forcibly converted or killed but rather to be tolerated.
Muslims believe in both Jesus and Abraham.
Like all religious text, words can be twisted to suit what a demagogue wants it to be.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 11:54 am to Zach
quote:
2. Islam is much more of an oral tradition than Christianity or Judaism. Some Imams are illiterate. Many of their followers are illiterate. This leads to misinterpretations of actual text.
This is the reason Islam is more moderate in better educated societies like Turkey, Indonesia, and Malaysia.
Basically what happened in the dark ages with Catholic priests manipulating their flock happens in a large part of the Muslim world still.
But the Israel-Palestinian conflict is more about the struggle for land.
Its just that the Israelis are smart and don't broadcast their ongoging atrocities like Hamas does.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 12:08 pm to StrongOffer
quote:Just read a few different translations of surahs 2.190-191.quote:I would believe you if radical muslims didn't kill innocents all over the world. They're getting it from somewhere.
the text says NOT to (basically) kill innocents
How many times have you seen Christians read (interpret) something into Scripture that simply is NOT present in the text? Islam and Muslims are no different.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 12:10 pm to Antoninus
quote:
Islam and Muslims are no different.
Christians aren't raping young girls and parading their bodies thru the streets.
Christians aren't murdering children in front of their parents.
Stop white-knighting for these subhumans.
Your addiction to hubris and constant attempts at pretending to be smarter than everyone makes you look stupid.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 12:26 pm to ApexTiger
My brother asked the question of what do I think the difference between Jesus and Mohammad.
Jesus is the Son of God. He rose from the dead and defeated death.
Mohammad it is written went straight to Allah.
Mohammad it is written ascending the way Elijah the Prophet did. Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
Mohammad a self proclaimed prophet and Jesus the Savior.
Jesus is the Son of God. He rose from the dead and defeated death.
Mohammad it is written went straight to Allah.
Mohammad it is written ascending the way Elijah the Prophet did. Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
Mohammad a self proclaimed prophet and Jesus the Savior.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 12:27 pm to ApexTiger
Best that I not post the comprehensive list of excerpts with which I had been provided.This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 1:13 pm
Posted on 10/12/23 at 12:31 pm to ImaObserver
Ban for what exactly?
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