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Are we at “PEAK” Golf?
Posted on 7/15/23 at 3:51 pm
Posted on 7/15/23 at 3:51 pm
Pre-COVID, golf looked like a no growth situation.
More course closing than opening. Work demands and money/time imbalances kept some from playing much.
Covid ramped up rounds played by a bunch. It seems to be sticky. Courses are full, Top Golf is busy, sales of equipment are through the roof.
Is this permanent? Cyclical?
I wish I had invested in Callaway the day they shut down almost all activity.
My understanding is all outdoor stuff did great. Fishing, hunting, pickleball, camping, but golf really made a comeback.
Will it end? The new courses being constructed are mostly very high end. I’m not sure they will be able to sustain that with economic variability.
More course closing than opening. Work demands and money/time imbalances kept some from playing much.
Covid ramped up rounds played by a bunch. It seems to be sticky. Courses are full, Top Golf is busy, sales of equipment are through the roof.
Is this permanent? Cyclical?
I wish I had invested in Callaway the day they shut down almost all activity.
My understanding is all outdoor stuff did great. Fishing, hunting, pickleball, camping, but golf really made a comeback.
Will it end? The new courses being constructed are mostly very high end. I’m not sure they will be able to sustain that with economic variability.
Posted on 7/15/23 at 3:53 pm to makersmark1
I think it holds. Once you get bit by that golf bug the journey never ends.
Posted on 7/15/23 at 4:21 pm to makersmark1
I also think YouTube golf and fashion golf brands such as Malbon are bringing a whole other segment of folks to the game.
Posted on 7/15/23 at 4:46 pm to makersmark1
Berthing is cyclical, but this is the first time golf has ever been “cool”. If you follow a lot of the golf accounts on IG, a lot of professional athletes and actors comment on them.
I was born in the 90s and even when I was in school, golf was thought of as a sport to get the unathletic kids out of the house. Now, it’s what everyone is doing when your pickup basketball career ends. It’s 100% to the masses. Every retard influencer is into it. If only it were a touch more affordable..
I was born in the 90s and even when I was in school, golf was thought of as a sport to get the unathletic kids out of the house. Now, it’s what everyone is doing when your pickup basketball career ends. It’s 100% to the masses. Every retard influencer is into it. If only it were a touch more affordable..
Posted on 7/15/23 at 5:57 pm to MrSpock
You are so right.
All the instruction that you can access online is something that has helped me a bit.
I don’t care about drama so I don’t watch the shows about players, but golf lends itself to social media. Everything from reporting a great shot, girls with their outfits, trick shots, etc.
All the instruction that you can access online is something that has helped me a bit.
I don’t care about drama so I don’t watch the shows about players, but golf lends itself to social media. Everything from reporting a great shot, girls with their outfits, trick shots, etc.
Posted on 7/15/23 at 6:03 pm to makersmark1
When Tiger was on his ascension, I believe that has been the peak in the last 20 years. Courses were being built like new Dollar stores. Lots of courses have shut down since, but it's still holding it's on, and covid definitely helped like all outdoor activities.
Posted on 7/15/23 at 6:28 pm to VernonPLSUfan
quote:
When Tiger was on his ascension, I believe that has been the peak in the last 20 years.
Without Covid, I think golf would sort of be steady state.
Tiger certainly moved the needle, but everyone did not have the option of “working from home.
Family men were way more involved in various kids activities. I coached so many basketball youth teams that getting time for golf was difficult.
Covid reset golf.
Posted on 7/15/23 at 7:48 pm to makersmark1
Covid did create more play, but courses are still in danger of closing due to economic and water availability pressures.
"Through June, the NGF reported fewer than 50 18-hole equivalent (18-HEQ) closures, a 25% drop from last year at that time. It projected 95 total by the end of the year, a 66% drop from 2019 and, potentially, the first time below 100 in almost two decades.Dec 11, 2022"
It's bit quite a while since we had any new public courses built in the Houston metro area. I'm counting Highland Pines as private since that is its intention.
"Through June, the NGF reported fewer than 50 18-hole equivalent (18-HEQ) closures, a 25% drop from last year at that time. It projected 95 total by the end of the year, a 66% drop from 2019 and, potentially, the first time below 100 in almost two decades.Dec 11, 2022"
It's bit quite a while since we had any new public courses built in the Houston metro area. I'm counting Highland Pines as private since that is its intention.
Posted on 7/15/23 at 10:38 pm to nugget
Golf is a sport that doesn’t require elite athleticism and there are several levels of a “good golfer”
Playing with friends and being able to shoot in the 70’s-low 80’s is considered good amongst most golfers I see today even though it’s not in the grand scheme of the game.
Golf is great for the masses because it’s so relative to who you compete against. Plus it’s a great reason for married men to get out of the house for a few hours.
Playing with friends and being able to shoot in the 70’s-low 80’s is considered good amongst most golfers I see today even though it’s not in the grand scheme of the game.
Golf is great for the masses because it’s so relative to who you compete against. Plus it’s a great reason for married men to get out of the house for a few hours.
Posted on 7/15/23 at 11:50 pm to makersmark1
Yes and no.
Golf got a boom from Covid, “working from home” and boomers retiring
At the same time….as soon as the recession happens these out of control memberships and green fees will slow way the hell down
Golf got a boom from Covid, “working from home” and boomers retiring
At the same time….as soon as the recession happens these out of control memberships and green fees will slow way the hell down
Posted on 7/16/23 at 5:59 am to cbtullis
We’ve got a club going from public to private.
I’m amazed at the growth of the game over the last 3 years.
I remember the Tiger bump, but this seems more to me.
Ultimately, for rounds played it’s some formula of time, money, and health.
Finding time for the man in the middle say 35 to 60 was helped by Covid.
Early retirements are getting more healthy people on the course.
Money piece can fluctuate with economy.
I’m amazed at the growth of the game over the last 3 years.
I remember the Tiger bump, but this seems more to me.
Ultimately, for rounds played it’s some formula of time, money, and health.
Finding time for the man in the middle say 35 to 60 was helped by Covid.
Early retirements are getting more healthy people on the course.
Money piece can fluctuate with economy.
Posted on 7/16/23 at 8:33 am to makersmark1
Still not many new courses opening. Seems as though most courses are now getting bought by corporations. These courses are then turned to shite because it cost a lot of money to maintain a nice course.
Posted on 7/16/23 at 8:43 am to AirbusDawg
quote:
Still not many new courses opening.
^it also seems like the new ones under construction are focused on the ultra high end.
Is that bc associated real estate development will be the profit?
I’d like to see some new park style courses built, but I guess developers make more money with golf course lots and courses make bank on cart rentals when it’s 300 to 500 yards between holes.
Posted on 7/16/23 at 9:22 am to cbtullis
quote:
the recession happens these out of control memberships and green fees will slow way the hell down
I'm already hearing a lot of grumbling from guys that belong to country clubs.
The dues keep increasing, but the level of service is declining.
It would be interesting to see where corporate memberships are the days as a percentage.
I know in the Houston area, a lot of the oil trade corporate memberships have dried up and gone away.
Posted on 7/16/23 at 9:54 am to bopper50
quote:
The dues keep increasing, but the level of service is declining.
Our club is part of Concert Golf.
They own about 25 courses or so.
Problem is our price point has no real competition locally. Everything is either much more and higher end or much less and not as nice. They go up on dues, but the add ones are a nuisance.
I guess Club Corp is the biggest. Troon Golf may have the best courses.
It’s nice not to have assessments, but there Does not seem to be a cap for golf members.
Posted on 7/16/23 at 10:08 am to makersmark1
I tell you what, I’m a teacher so during the summer I can play on a random weekday morning. Used to be able to show up, empty course, walk 18 holes in under 3 hours. Now, every course packed, paired up with multiple people, have to call in advance.
Last Thursday I tee’d off at 9am and played a 5 hr round… Guys in front of us clearly had no idea about golf etiquette, taking 3-4 mulligans every tee shot while groups waited, driving carts up on the green, hitting every putt twice, getting “lessons” from a buddy, just slowing everyone down.
I don’t usually care about long rounds, I’m never in a rush to get off the golf course… However It was enough to make me think again about joining a club to avoid crap like that
Last Thursday I tee’d off at 9am and played a 5 hr round… Guys in front of us clearly had no idea about golf etiquette, taking 3-4 mulligans every tee shot while groups waited, driving carts up on the green, hitting every putt twice, getting “lessons” from a buddy, just slowing everyone down.
I don’t usually care about long rounds, I’m never in a rush to get off the golf course… However It was enough to make me think again about joining a club to avoid crap like that
This post was edited on 7/16/23 at 10:10 am
Posted on 7/16/23 at 11:19 am to Tiger1242
I think the real question for golf courses is will on course play decline with the movement towards top golf type places. People in their 40’s and older probably would never be satisfied with that but the question is how many from the younger generation make the jump from indoor golf to outdoor golf. Outdoor courses are still on the decline losing about 100 courses a year.
Posted on 7/16/23 at 11:32 am to LSU5508
quote:
how many from the younger generation make the jump from indoor golf to outdoor golf.
Another driver is weather. These covered facilities resolve some rain issues. Only time I’ve done it was a rainy day. It was fun and I can see the draw. It also allows a raw beginner some interaction that is not as difficult as real golf.
Top Golf is not cheap.
Posted on 7/17/23 at 8:44 am to makersmark1
I think that COVID and social media or "Youtube Golfers" have really helped the game in a way that hasn't been seen before. I hope it continues to grow and continues to become more inclusive.
Posted on 7/17/23 at 9:54 am to tigerbait17
Water will be the biggest challenge for courses and new development in the future.
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