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Started By
Message
re: "Constitutional carry” passes in the committee and will now move on to the House.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:44 pm to Dingdong Stabbins
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:44 pm to Dingdong Stabbins
As a longtime firearms instructor and range officer, I support the 2nd Amendment.
But after seeing the completely stupid and unsafe things that untrained and/or inattentive people do at even well organized ranges, I am reluctant to open the flood gates for people who have zero training to carry concealed firearms.
Basic concepts such as muzzle discipline, trigger discipline, charging and clearing a chamber, press checking a chamber, and sight alignment are not innate skills to all humans. These necessary skills are taught and maintained. I have literally seen people show up with .9mm pistol in a box and bag and load .40 S&W ammunition into the magazine before wondering why the chamber would not close into battery!
People are inherently lazy and will take the path of least resistance.
Having them attend a simple safety class and display a reasonable level of skill is not an infringement - it is part of that whole "well regulated" concept in my view. It is a completely reasonable expectation for their safety and for the safety of everyone around them.
In fact, I think that some firearms safety training should be required for all citizens as part of their early education. If we view ourselves as part of the militia, why are we not given some basic training to make that viable?
Think this through for a moment. Do we want to permit all of the lowest IQ and poorest maturity people to have the ability to carry concealed with no standards, training or qualification?
Take a moment to ponder those special few...
Seems scary to me.
I took numerous classes and fired countless rounds before even considering carrying a firearm. I cannot imagine any responsible person not wanting to be skilled before doing so.
But after seeing the completely stupid and unsafe things that untrained and/or inattentive people do at even well organized ranges, I am reluctant to open the flood gates for people who have zero training to carry concealed firearms.
Basic concepts such as muzzle discipline, trigger discipline, charging and clearing a chamber, press checking a chamber, and sight alignment are not innate skills to all humans. These necessary skills are taught and maintained. I have literally seen people show up with .9mm pistol in a box and bag and load .40 S&W ammunition into the magazine before wondering why the chamber would not close into battery!
People are inherently lazy and will take the path of least resistance.
Having them attend a simple safety class and display a reasonable level of skill is not an infringement - it is part of that whole "well regulated" concept in my view. It is a completely reasonable expectation for their safety and for the safety of everyone around them.
In fact, I think that some firearms safety training should be required for all citizens as part of their early education. If we view ourselves as part of the militia, why are we not given some basic training to make that viable?
Think this through for a moment. Do we want to permit all of the lowest IQ and poorest maturity people to have the ability to carry concealed with no standards, training or qualification?
Take a moment to ponder those special few...
Seems scary to me.
I took numerous classes and fired countless rounds before even considering carrying a firearm. I cannot imagine any responsible person not wanting to be skilled before doing so.
7
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:51 pm to Rabby
quote:
As a longtime firearms instructor and range officer, I support the 2nd Amendment. But
No, no you don’t. I’ve seen range officers and firearms instructors do completely stupid and unsafe things with guns. Guess they need to be included when your preferred rights violations come down.
We can fill the rest of this thread with videos of instructors shooting themselves. They have no business having their constitutional rights preserved…
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:56 pm to Rabby
quote:You can never have 100% assurance that stupid people will not do stupid things, but a bit of mandatory training DOES seem to lessen the likelihood significantly.
Rabby
The problem IMO is that the language of the 2A does seem to preclude such a requirement.***
***(Setting aside the question of whether the 2A ... or the Bill of Rights as a whole ... was ever intended to limit anyone other than the FEDERAL government, as compared to state/local).
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:01 pm to Rabby
quote:
But after seeing the completely stupid and unsafe things that untrained and/or inattentive people do at even well organized ranges, I am reluctant to open the flood gates for people who have zero training to carry concealed firearms.
I guess we should put laws in place to prevent people from owning cars and driving based on this same assessment.
This post was edited on 5/17/23 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:55 pm to Rabby
Interesting take. I have a question then. Would you still stand by this if the classes and permits were free? Because about 100% of the "range officers and firearms instructors" that I argue this topic with have a monetary benefit in REQUIRING the classes they teach. Now, would you still be in favor of this if you had to provide these classes without getting paid for them?
Posted on 5/17/23 at 2:17 pm to Rabby
quote:
As a longtime firearms instructor and range officer, I support the 2nd Amendment.
But after seeing the completely stupid and unsafe things that untrained and/or inattentive people do at even well organized ranges, I am reluctant to open the flood gates for people who have zero training to carry concealed firearms.
Basic concepts such as muzzle discipline, trigger discipline, charging and clearing a chamber, press checking a chamber, and sight alignment are not innate skills to all humans. These necessary skills are taught and maintained. I have literally seen people show up with .9mm pistol in a box and bag and load .40 S&W ammunition into the magazine before wondering why the chamber would not close into battery!
People are inherently lazy and will take the path of least resistance.
Having them attend a simple safety class and display a reasonable level of skill is not an infringement - it is part of that whole "well regulated" concept in my view. It is a completely reasonable expectation for their safety and for the safety of everyone around them.
In fact, I think that some firearms safety training should be required for all citizens as part of their early education. If we view ourselves as part of the militia, why are we not given some basic training to make that viable?
Think this through for a moment. Do we want to permit all of the lowest IQ and poorest maturity people to have the ability to carry concealed with no standards, training or qualification?
Take a moment to ponder those special few...
Seems scary to me.
I took numerous classes and fired countless rounds before even considering carrying a firearm. I cannot imagine any responsible person not wanting to be skilled before doing so.
None of what you posted means shite. A person with a 60 IQ has the same rights as someone with a 160 IQ. You don't have to be smart, you don't have to be responsible, you don't have to be anything but a non-felonious citizen. And "well regulated" has nothing to do with the right to bear arms.
Why is it you liberals can't seem to understand, "shall not be infringed"? It's not hard.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 2:41 pm to Rabby
quote:
I am reluctant to open the flood gates for people who have zero training to carry concealed firearms.
Dude I’ll go to the class to learn and submit to a background check but the LSP application reads like I’m applying for a top secret clearance. It’s such a pain in the arse and the fact that I have to pay $150 for then to grant me my constitutional rights is bullshite. It’s a money grab for those clowns with the goofy arse hats.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 5:35 pm to Rabby
quote:
As a longtime firearms instructor and range officer, I support the 2nd Amendment. But
You either have total security or total freedom. You can’t have both, bucko.
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