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Posted on 4/29/23 at 8:47 am to NIH
quote:
Mate, does it ever get old being completely negative about every single team you follow?
i don't think SFP was being negative, as much as he was just pointing out the illogical reasoning of the OP...
Posted on 4/29/23 at 8:47 am to josh336
I mean, watch the draft. The teams don't draft bpa and ignore all else. There's absolutely, unequivocally, needs being injected into every pick to varying degrees.
This post was edited on 4/29/23 at 8:48 am
Posted on 4/29/23 at 8:50 am to Pendulum
quote:
Player with ambiguous future success at a position of need has a higher percentage chance of contributing to team than a player with ambiguous success at a position not in need or at a position that isn't in our scheme.
Based on what?
quote:
The only argument is if scouting is a complete crapshoot or not.
And this argument applies to either BPA or need-based drafting.
quote:
If I'm going to pick someone out of scheme
They won't be BPA, then. They probably won't (shouldn't?) even be on your board to be considered for either method
quote:
or a position I don't need.
Again, this is the NFL. Every position is one of need. Injuries are common and walls are hit annually.
Even with singular positions that don't rotate, like QB, not only is depth important, but the potential to trade that player for more capital than you used to acquire him is +EV. Remember when people thought the Redskins were insane for drafting Cousins and RG3? Or you can look at more outlier scenarios like Brady-Bledsoe, Wilson-Flynn, Trey Lance-Brock Purdy, etc.
This is the NFL. No position is safe and no player is a guarantee to be productive in 1-2 years.
Posted on 4/29/23 at 8:52 am to SlowFlowPro
So you are arguing what bpa means now? Youre saying best player for a team also would incorporate fit?
This is generally not what that term means.
To be clear I dont feel drafting for fit is the best or bpa is the best. Weighing all variables is the best. But the concept the op is presenting is a valid opinion if you believe scouting is really a crapshoot.
And you say in nfl, every position is of need. Well print out every roster and look at draft results. The nfl doesn't agree with you. Teams draft for needs and holes more than not.
This is generally not what that term means.
To be clear I dont feel drafting for fit is the best or bpa is the best. Weighing all variables is the best. But the concept the op is presenting is a valid opinion if you believe scouting is really a crapshoot.
And you say in nfl, every position is of need. Well print out every roster and look at draft results. The nfl doesn't agree with you. Teams draft for needs and holes more than not.
This post was edited on 4/29/23 at 8:56 am
Posted on 4/29/23 at 8:56 am to Pendulum
quote:
So you are arguing what bpa means now? Youre saying best player for a team also would incorporate fit?
Fit? yes
Of course teams rank players, in part, by fit.
Fit is not "need" Need also requires fit, the same as BPA (and the same as scouting)
quote:
if you believe scouting is really a crapshoot.
This doesn't change anything. Both rely on scouting.
Even if you're drafting for need, you're drafting BPA, just positionally.
This post was edited on 4/29/23 at 8:57 am
Posted on 4/29/23 at 8:57 am to SlowFlowPro
BPA to me, means picking the player graded the highest regardless of letters next to name.
So I guess we just are not on the same page with that.
So I guess we just are not on the same page with that.
Posted on 4/29/23 at 8:57 am to Pendulum
quote:
mean, watch the draft. The teams don't draft bpa and ignore all else. There's absolutely, unequivocally, needs being injected into every pick to varying degrees
Oh i agree, to some extent. And the ones that win, hit on stars regardless of position
Posted on 4/29/23 at 8:58 am to Pendulum
quote:
BPA to me, means picking the player graded the highest regardless of letters next to name.
So I guess we just are not on the same page with that.
Why do you think fit doesn't affect grading?
How does fit have anything to do with need?
Posted on 4/29/23 at 8:58 am to Pendulum
I’m starting to think SFP is just morning drinking and arguing just to argue. It’s not worth going into the amount of detail he’s going into about what BPA actually is and all the minute details about success and everything.
This post was edited on 4/29/23 at 8:59 am
Posted on 4/29/23 at 8:59 am to cbree88
quote:
It’s not worth going into the amount of detail he’s going into about what BPA actually is and all the minute details about everything.
When people make bad arguments that are not logical and double down, it becomes necessary.
Posted on 4/29/23 at 9:00 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
When people make bad arguments that are not logical and double down, it becomes necessary.
Maybe you should quit doing that then. You’re mixing up BPA and drafting for need and making it sound like you think they’re the same thing now.
This is very confusing argument lol
This post was edited on 4/29/23 at 9:01 am
Posted on 4/29/23 at 9:03 am to SlowFlowPro
People grade draft prospects without having a team in mind. You're losing me now. How can grades incorporate if the position fits or if it's needed on a certain team. So unless you are grading for a certain team and roster, you just can't grade players?
Posted on 4/29/23 at 9:03 am to cbree88
quote:
. You’re mixing up BPA and drafting for need and making it sound like you think they’re the same thing now.
They are, just one is a limiting version of the other.
They're also based on the same process (scouting/grading).
quote:
Maybe you should quite doing that then
I've been perfectly logical this entire thread. You're the one confused over simple concepts that require me to keep breaking them down more simply.
I'll try to make this as simple as possible for you:
Drafting for need is just drafting for BPA and filtering your list by a particular position.
It's the same process using the same rankings, so the same criticisms you've attempted for BPA still apply to drafting for need.
Posted on 4/29/23 at 9:04 am to Pendulum
quote:
People grade draft prospects without having a team in mind.
Wait you think I'm discussing this from a draftnik perspective?
I'm talking about team action, not content creators
Posted on 4/29/23 at 9:09 am to SlowFlowPro
So you’re arguing that filtering by position adds no value?
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one, man.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one, man.
Posted on 4/29/23 at 9:09 am to cbree88
quote:
So you’re arguing that filtering by position adds no value?
It adds negative value, if we're being precise with our language.
Posted on 4/29/23 at 9:13 am to SlowFlowPro
If you poll 1000 people, 999 apparently out of 1000 would tell you bpa means "best player regardless of position."
Apparently you are the 1. That's fine, God made all his creations unique.
Apparently you are the 1. That's fine, God made all his creations unique.
This post was edited on 4/29/23 at 9:14 am
Posted on 4/29/23 at 9:14 am to Pendulum
Lol
Posted on 4/29/23 at 9:19 am to SlowFlowPro
It seems we actually mostly agree on what teams should do in their approach, we are arguing semantics. So I'll stop.
I think BPA is a dumb concept when considered absolutely and people throw it out way too much, no one actually does that in the draft. You think the definition of BPA is something that isn't BPA absolutely. This is pointless.
I think BPA is a dumb concept when considered absolutely and people throw it out way too much, no one actually does that in the draft. You think the definition of BPA is something that isn't BPA absolutely. This is pointless.
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