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re: Ex-SBC president allegedly sexually assaulted pastor’s wife, asked for sex 3 times a day

Posted on 5/29/22 at 7:12 am to
Posted by Azkiger
Member since Nov 2016
21833 posts
Posted on 5/29/22 at 7:12 am to
quote:

This isn’t the plan out of necessity and God just couldn’t do better


So you don't think if God personally walked and talked with every member of his creation, like he did with Adam and Eve, that not one extra soul would be saved?

quote:

God decided to show mercy on some people who didn’t deserve it


I don't get this mentality.

God creates us drowning in a pool, then gets to be viewed as merciful when he throws 1 or 2% of us a flotation device.

Honest question: If you were given the odds before being created in sin on Earth, told that there was a ~98% chance you'd burn for all eternity or a 2% chance you'd end up in paradise, would you want to be created and roll the dice?

Even if you say yes, can you understand someone saying no to that offer?
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48613 posts
Posted on 5/29/22 at 8:02 am to
quote:

God creates us drowning in a pool, then gets to be viewed as merciful when he throws 1 or 2% of us a flotation device.


Foo is a Calvinist who follows John Calvin's thoughts and opinions on these issues. Calvinism is Predestinationism. It's a minority view, even among Protestants.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
41824 posts
Posted on 5/29/22 at 8:33 am to
quote:

So you don't think if God personally walked and talked with every member of his creation, like he did with Adam and Eve, that not one extra soul would be saved?
I do not, no. Not unless God ordained more people to be saved first.

Jesus walked and talked with Judas for 3+ years and Judas still betrayed Him and killed himself in unbelief. This was precisely because God did not choose Judas to receive eternal life.

God was in the midst of Israel, dwelling in the tabernacle and then the temple for years. He performed miracles and signs to the people, and they still rejected Him and worshipped other gods made of their own hands. He sent prophets and gave them power to perform miracles by His authority and the people still refused to repent of idolatry and follow God.

Jesus went about the land, performing miracles and expressing His authority as God, and He was still chased out of towns and cities, threatened with death, and was finally crucified due to the rejection of the people.

So no, I don’t believe that anyone extra would be saved unless God changed the hearts and minds of people by His Spirit and gave them the gift of faith, which is how He has always saved people.

quote:

I don't get this mentality.

God creates us drowning in a pool, then gets to be viewed as merciful when he throws 1 or 2% of us a flotation device.
Your analogy assumes we are innocent and wanting to be saved but only a few get the help they want. That’s not true. Most reject that they are drowning and in need of help, and many who do recognize their need reject the help that is offered to them.

It’s more like God creates the world on death row in prison, where everyone is waiting for their execution date for treason against the almighty King, and He offers a pardon to everyone who will repent of their crimes and trust in His son, who has already been executed to satisfy the King’s justice, even though all are guilty of their crimes and not deserving to be pardoned. All but a few reject that deal, because: they don’t believe they will be executed; they don’t believe they have committed treason; that they King doesn’t exist to grant them a pardon; that they hate the King and would rather be executed than acknowledge His rule; or that they are looking to another king to save them from their execution.

No one deserves salvation from sin. If we did, then salvation would be owed to us rather than an act of mercy. We are all guilty of cosmic treason due to our sinful rebellion against the Lord of all creation.

quote:

Honest question: If you were given the odds before being created in sin on Earth, told that there was a ~98% chance you'd burn for all eternity or a 2% chance you'd end up in paradise, would you want to be created and roll the dice?

Even if you say yes, can you understand someone saying no to that offer?
For one, it is a nonsensical hypothetical question as we don’t exist prior to creation, but for the sake of your argument, I’d say it depends on God’s decree and work in me and not on probabilities.

Second, I believe most people, in such a scenario, would choose to not be created in the first place (assuming they believed the message in the first place) rather than risk being tormented as a deserved punishment (which is understandable), however the desire to not be born into that situation is moot, as it is God that determines the course of the universe, not us, and even in the situation we find ourselves in, most people who are told how to be saved reject it anyway.

Let’s change that scenario around just a little: let’s assume you are in your current situation in life with your current unbelief in God and our state before Him, and you are told that you could be one of the 1 or 2 percent that is saved if you believe in Jesus’ saving work on the cross on your behalf. Would you believe or reject that message?

If you reject that message, why create unrealistic hypotheticals when you reject reality?
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