quote:
We're having this discussion because of reports that Russian forces are running low on artillery shells and are using dug-in tanks as a substitute way of hitting Ukrainians with indirect fire.

If these reports are true, then the Russian situation is dire. First off, most modern tanks lack the required sighting and fire control systems to lay down accurate indirect fire. You can’t just point a cannon up on the air and have it fire on targets it can’t see and expect to land anywhere close to where it needs to go. It is possible, but it takes specialized sighting equipment. And even more importantly, it takes specialized training for the tank crew in indirect fire techniques. Considering the level of training we’ve seen thus far in this war, I’m highly doubtful the Russians have tank crews either equipped or trained for indirect fire.

And on top of this, modern tank rounds are not designed to do anything via plunging, indirect fire. Even HE rounds are made to be fired directly at targets like bunkers or buildings. Other tanks rounds like HEAT and APFSDS (Sabot) are totally useless as far as indirect fire is concerned.

I would take reports of Russians using tanks in an indirect fire role with a huge grain of salt.

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Posted by GOP_Tiger

Baton Rouge

Member since Jan 2005

18021 posts

Posted on 12/22/22 at 9:48 am to Darth_Vader

quote:
I would take reports of Russians using tanks in an indirect fire role with a huge grain of salt.

It's not completely made up. Some Russian Telegram account showed one of their tanks doing this. The question is how widespread it is, and whether it represented a unique situation in a particular area of the frontline, or whether it was more representative of a general shortage of artillery shells.

This post was edited on 12/22/22 at 9:49 am

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Posted by WeeWee

Member since Aug 2012

40221 posts

Posted on 12/22/22 at 10:03 am to Darth_Vader

quote:
these reports are true, then the Russian situation is dire. First off, most modern tanks lack the required sighting and fire control systems to lay down accurate indirect fire. You can’t just point a cannon up on the air and have it fire on targets it can’t see and expect to land anywhere close to where it needs to go. It is possible, but it takes specialized sighting equipment. And even more importantly, it takes specialized training for the tank crew in indirect fire techniques. Considering the level of training we’ve seen thus far in this war, I’m highly doubtful the Russians have tank crews either equipped or trained for indirect fire. And on top of this, modern tank rounds are not designed to do anything via plunging, indirect fire. Even HE rounds are made to be fired directly at targets like bunkers or buildings. Other tanks rounds like HEAT and APFSDS (Sabot) are totally useless as far as indirect fire is concerned. I would take reports of Russians using tanks in an indirect fire role with a huge grain of salt

I’m not going to argue with anything you said because I don’t know enough about it to argue. However, I do have enough contacts (both Ukrainian and NATO observers) on the ground in Ukraine to know that both Russia and Ukraine have a “f**k it let’s try it attitude” when it comes to unorthodox ideas. I’m just speculating but I wouldn’t be surprised if a Russian officer just mentioned it and other Russian officers ran with the idea. After all the months long Russian head on attacks on the strategically insignificant Severodonetsk and Bakhmut (which could have been bypassed and encircled during the summer when the ground was firm) didn’t make sense either.

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