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Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:29 am to Music_City_Tiger
quote:
The fact that the shooter was charged with a terrorism charge makes me think this prosecutor is not very bright.
Why? Are you aware of how Michigan criminal law defines an act of terrorism?
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:31 am to udtiger
quote:
Apparently, the dad gave the kid the gun.
Do you have supporting evidence for this statement or is just your personal assumption? To assumen make an arse&u&me.
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:32 am to Eurocat
quote:
I don't understand the reason for the charges.
The prosecutor claims that there is evidence of gross negligence as far as the kids access to the weapon given his recent behavior. That is going to be a really tough case to make though. Doubt it sticks if they charge them.
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:32 am to Music_City_Tiger
Unless they can show that the parents bought this gun for the kid to specifically do this, I'm not sure what they could possibly charge them with.
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:36 am to Tbonepatron
quote:
Not securing a firearm that’s used in a crime is a crime itself, as it should be.
So how long has this idea been around that weapons at home must be locked up in a safe? 20 years? It is a relatively new idea but certainly seems to be the accepted norm today for many.
I know it wasn't the norm when I grew up. We just knew better than to abuse a weapon. This nanny state/lawyer business of must take absolutely every precaution often well beyond common sense or else the hammer comes down is just out of control.
This post was edited on 12/3/21 at 10:38 am
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:36 am to Eurocat
quote:
I'm fine with that bigdawg, but then we should charge every parent of every inner city hoodlum if they used dad's gun in a crime, no?
I agree. But 9 times out of 10 these inner city murders are committed with dirty guns bought off the streets. Hoodlums aren't sneaking into mama's room and grabbing her 9 out of the dresser to go shoot up the opposition.
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:38 am to ImaObserver
quote:
quote:
Apparently, the dad gave the kid the gun.
Do you have supporting evidence for this statement or is just your personal assumption? To assumen make an arse&u&me.
I had heard that in some initial reporting
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:39 am to BigDawg0420
quote:
I am as big of a defender of the 2nd Amendment as anyone. With that being said, the right to bear arms comes with great responsibility. That responsibility includes securing firearms in a way that prevents them from falling into the unsupervised hands of children, mentally ill, etc. While I don't believe the shooter's parents should be vicariously liable for the murders, they probably should be charged with some form of negligent handling/storage of a firearm. Now my opinion may change if facts show the parents knew their child was disturbed/had sinister plans and still allowed access to the firearm. Will be interesting to see what ultimately they will be charged with.
Please cite that statute.
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:42 am to Music_City_Tiger
Unless there is another younger sibling in the home, I don’t think locking it up from a teenager should be the law. The teen should have access to protect the home in case the parent isn’t there. I agree responsibility is important. If they’re charging the child as an adult I don’t see how you also give the parent responsibility here.
ETA: just read the timeline and the school parent meeting the day of the shooting. I think the parents are certainly liable and the school officials should be right beside them. How do you let the kid stay in school after what he wrote? How do you not search his bag? The kid was begging for an intervention. I don’t see how you charge him as an adult.
ETA: just read the timeline and the school parent meeting the day of the shooting. I think the parents are certainly liable and the school officials should be right beside them. How do you let the kid stay in school after what he wrote? How do you not search his bag? The kid was begging for an intervention. I don’t see how you charge him as an adult.
This post was edited on 12/3/21 at 4:59 pm
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:44 am to Music_City_Tiger
Because shooter’s mother wrote a letter supportive of Trump on her Facebook page. She voiced her support of him and of second amendment rights.
This is enough to be considered terrorism today.
This is enough to be considered terrorism today.
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:44 am to Music_City_Tiger
quote:
Please cite that statute.
MCL 752.861 seems to be on point.
quote:
Careless, reckless or negligent use of firearms; penalty.
Any person who, because of carelessness, recklessness or negligence, but not wilfully or wantonly, shall cause or allow any firearm under his immediate control, to be discharged so as to kill or injure another person, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 2 years, or by a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 1 year, in the discretion of the court.
It really depends how you define "immediate control".
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:46 am to BigDawg0420
quote:
I am as big of a defender of the 2nd Amendment as anyone. With that being said, the right to bear arms comes with great responsibility.
I could say the same about the right to vote then.
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:50 am to Music_City_Tiger
quote:
negligent handling/storage of a firearm
quote:
Please cite that statute.
Michigan Penal Code 752.861:
quote:
Careless, reckless or negligent use of firearms; penalty
quote:
Any person who, because of carelessness, recklessness or negligence, but not wilfully or wantonly, shall cause or allow any firearm under his immediate control, to be discharged so as to kill or injure another person, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 2 years, or by a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 1 year, in the discretion of the court.
I'm not saying that charge would stick to the parents, but the statutes covering that type of thing certainly exist in MI.
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:52 am to i am dan
quote:
I could say the same about the right to vote then.
Indeed. People should treat the ballot box with the same thought and care of a loaded firearm.
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:53 am to udtiger
quote:
Apparently, the dad gave the kid the gun.
Hadn’t heard that. Interesting if true.
I do know the dad got the gun just a few days before this happened though
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:53 am to Tbonepatron
quote:
Not securing a firearm that’s used in a crime is a crime itself, as it should be.
That sounds like bullshite. How are you defining “secured”?
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:54 am to Music_City_Tiger
If the parents gave the kid the gun and knew he was unstable then I say he’ll yeah charge them.
I’d rather the crap parents face consequences for their negligence that lead to people getting murdered than this issue continue to be a pointless debate over the 2nd amendment
I’d rather the crap parents face consequences for their negligence that lead to people getting murdered than this issue continue to be a pointless debate over the 2nd amendment
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:55 am to Tbonepatron
quote:
Not securing a firearm that’s used in a crime is a crime itself, as it should be.
I completely disagree. If your gun is locked up in a safe when someone breaks into your home, you are not safe.
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:56 am to Flats
quote:
How are you defining “secured”?
Using the statute cited above, "securing" the weapon in would be not storing it carelessly, recklessly, or negligently in a manner that allows or causes it to be discharged so as to kill or injure another person.
Aka nowhere that your demonstrably unstable son can access it and bring it to school.
This post was edited on 12/3/21 at 10:59 am
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